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ok, at the moment i am undefeated... now your thinking, "reflex, your a pompus arse for saying that"... to that i say, yes i guess i am, but how many of you can say that you have got a new army, made it, and played somewhat 23 games, and not lost, or drawed a game. not many.
ok back to my point. there hs been some discution going on about black templars and them being over kill. for me this comes as a shock. especially seeing as though most of the games i have won is because of my chaplain being the only scoring unit left in the game, giving me the victory.
i am not sure what to say about such claims, but its confusing. i see so many BT players lose because they cant use the army. yet people say to me that the army is over powerful and over kill...
where should i stand on this?
Where should you stand on this?
You have to take some things into consideration. Well there are questions to be asked.
What level of skill is your opponents? (As in doyou play adults or kids.)
What armies do you play against?
What type of games do you play?
Have you watched other BT plays game?
How do you use your list during a game?
If you can answer these questions then it will help you where you stand.
Why use science and education when ignorance and superstition will work just as well.
I really doubt that the issue is that your BTs are too good. Of course, it's impossible to say. A few other items to add to the list of things to ask yourself:
What kind of terrain are you playing with?
I played a lot of my first games on a table without enough terrain (and it often was placed in deployment zones ), and I routinely got clobbered. Then again, I was playing an assaulty army against shooty armies... so this isn't terribly shocking.
What -is- your list?
It really is pretty much just as important as what your opponents are playing for fairly obvious reasons.
You play your game, I'll play mine.
If BT were so "broken" then GW would probably have done something about it. Also, look at the GT's I know BT players have done well which means that maybe they are overpowered. However, by no means were the top 10 finishers and infact I don't think a BT player won. This would seem to mean that the BT are not overpowered much if at all. I would say it comes down you either played against people of a much lower skill level than you(I am by no means saying that you did this on purpose rather that you played someone, not knowing their level of skill), you got so lucky I can't explain it, you are a player of extreme skill, or the terrain mission was setup in your favor to an extreme. It could also be some combo of these things. I personally would go with the fact that it is some combo of these things.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
Having played against Black Templar quite a bit, I think I can say with some authority that BT are very good, deadly, in fact, but by no means are they overkill. The BT that I play against has been playing/strategizing WH40k for years more than I have, so I don't think its necessarily that BT is overly-good when I get slaughtered. That is one of those factors the other guys have brought out. More often than not, my opponent and I, him BT, me as SWs or a traight marine army, simply demolish each others armies, usually ending in a draw or the win going to the BT but not by much (sure, some exceptions to this).
For example, the last game we played, I probably would have won by slight margin except for the fact that a full GH pack of mine lost two models in close combat, then failed 3 leadership tests in a row to be run off the board with no other models actually dying to enemy fire. Ticked me off, but had they made any one of those leadership tests, I probably woulda run.
When it comes right down to it, BT are tough and solid, but by no means overkill.
"There will never be enough peace in the universe unless first there is enough war." - Farseer Eleuflin
Wait a sec Reflex, IC's never count as scoring units so that means many of your games should not count as a victory. (By what you say at least.)Originally Posted by Reflex
Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
"The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
Member of the Fluff Masters Clan
i agree, BT are not overpowered, they have no vet sgt's, meaning less powerfist attacks, have no devestattors, and no whirlwinds.
2000pts Orks 4-2-1
by no means have I ever been a SM player. But I picked up the Black Templar codex yesterday and they do seem powerful. Powerful, but not over-powered.
If they are played right, they will be nasty, this also goes for any army.
They do have some nasty abilities and weapons, but they are on the same level as all the other SM armies.
Every person has an army that works well for them. Yours may just be BT, mine is Night Lords. I don't lose often with them and I realize I'm just good with them.
In third edition, yeah. BT were waaaaaaay overpowered. Their vows mixed with the rhino rush was nothing short of broken. Not to mention they had the lowest priced, most beefed up IC in the game.
But now, nah. BT are very fair under 4th edition with the new codex. I don't see a problem with their rule set anymore. In fact, i'd venture to say they're a little easier to bring down. Especially with the 3+ vow with the lack of a rhino rush. Makes forcing them to chase your land speeder around the field so much easier.
Sam Mills (1959-2005) and Mark Fields - Keep Pounding
Cry Cheese, And Let Loose The Wraithlords And Templar!
I've really never had a problem playing against our Local BT player, hes on par with my skills. I play DA and i usually win i've only lost one gaem but i rolled so bad i threw my dice away and bought new ones lol. BT are much easier to fight than Chaos or BA. I just pick whats gonna cause the most dmg to me. I usually have 2 dev squads with 3-4 Missle Launchers or 3-4 Plasma Cannons. If i focus the fire from both of these at another marine squad it generally won't be there next turn which negates them taking that test and runnin up my butt. this may sound cheesy but hell it wins me the game. take into accoutn I haven't played a game lower than 2000 pts in almost a year lol so stuf like this is common. one thing that does urk me th ewrong way is when they hit me on 3's.... but hey its fair since they lack librarians(IMO the best HQ choice for SM) and some other heavy hitters. There not overkill but an army which requires a little more thought to play than a norm SM army.
Order of the Black Rose
Neophyte of the Blood God
"for the Lion"