Faith Points: Game Maker or Breaker? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Illustrator Extraordinair Adrian MalSeraph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    New York State
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,579
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    192 (x7)

    Faith Points: Game Maker or Breaker?

    To the Sisters of Battle vets:

    Is the use of Faith Points pivotal to winning a match or can they get by on their own, from your own experiences?

    If you've won games without using Faith Points, give us a little detail.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    115
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    In my personal experience, there hasn't been a single game where I have not used atleast one Act of Faith. Against armies like IG or Orks, where we don't need most of our really good acts of faith to beat them, you might only use say.... 2-4 Acts of Faith throughout the whole game depending on circumstances.

    On the other hand, any time I run into a CSM, SM, Necron, or Eldar army, I find myself using all of my starting Acts of Faith, and easily burning through half of the Martyrdom refunds to win a game. Against things innately stronger than they are, Sisters need Acts of Faith to be a truely competative army because of all the weapon and equipment restrictions they have. Things like Devine Guidance and Hand of the Emperor are real equalizers that counter-balance the fact that we don't get Plasma Rifles or Strength 4.

    And against any anti-MEQ Eldar army, SoM is extremely useful, and has saved my Seraphim more than once against Howling Banshees in assault and many of my BS Squads against Fire Dragons and Dark Reapers.

    So, I say it is based on circumstances and the opponants army wether I use a lot of acts of faith or not and wether or not they are pivotal to winning.
    Last edited by Kiradia; August 23rd, 2006 at 21:56.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    37 (x2)

    Are faith points [alone] pivotal?
    Standing alone, Faith Acts are not pivotal. I do not consider the acts particularly powerful.
    Some Acts can provide advantage only when you force the circumstances. Most Acts are limited in some way. If Fath Acts were overwhelmingly powerful, we'd be bored by the army.

    As Kira said, faith doesn't come into much demand vs IG and Orks.

    Can the WH army "get by" without faith?
    The WH army can prevail with low or no faith usage. The game will be more difficult, and you would obviously build your list differently.

    Inquisitorial tricks including Psychic powers/wargear/retinues can be a viable substitute for faith, though usually not as potent or universally applicable as faith.
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    270
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    I disagree with RZ... as asked, faith is often pivitol especially when playing Meq's in a pure Sister list.

    Unloading a rhino full of girls, double tapping, flaming and MGing with a DG roll and erasing 5 termies is something to see. Having your Canoness tie up a monster HQ for three turns with SoM allowing you to toast the rest of an opponent's army happens to me all the time. A single AoF may not be pivitol but when you add up their impact for the entire game, they usually play a pivitol role.

    Now there will be armies like DE and guard where faith will be less useful. But on the whole it makes the sisters tough opposition.

    Faith is the equalizer in an army that has little long range fire power and one that has less than stellar CC ability. T-3/S-3 is not a scary proposition. And before someone champions using PE's and arcos, remember that a PE is 11 armor open topped unit. One pen roll of 2 or higher will put the PE out of action. Arco's have difficulty getting across the board. Hence most screen them with a rhino. Arco's that are activated do get a psuedo FoF but beware the "6".

    A good friend of mine advised me to play a few games without faith to better understand when to use faith and it worked wonders. Its amazing how much better the sisters are using faith. Play a few games against Meq's without faith and it becomes apparent.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    37 (x2)

    Radiant is not considering that an experienced Marine player will not even bring his terminators.
    And if experienced Terminators do show up, expect them to be carrying an Autocannon and deepstrike where they have a clear shot at your Dominion Rhino, and it will likely be blown.

    My point is that we have to realize that one of our biggest advantages as WH players is that many players do not know our army. This allows us to often set up the perfect circumstances with which to enact faith profitably.

    An experienced opponent already understands your faith, and he will attempt to deny the optimal circumstances, especially if you are customizing your lists for each other.

    In that kind of game (experienced opponent using customized list), the faith acts are a limited quantity. The real pivot in that game is how well you can produce the circumstances that allow your faith acts to flourish.

    Simply stated, the knowledge possessed by your opponent can make the difference between faith being overwhelming or simply advantageous.
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    270
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    Radiant is not considering that an experienced Marine player will not even bring his terminators.
    And if experienced Terminators do show up, expect them to be carrying an Autocannon and deepstrike where they have a clear shot at your Dominion Rhino, and it will likely be blown.
    Interesting but not quite accurate. The last two big tournies I played I saw termmies in every SM army. Like any other unit, termmies can be decisive if they are used correctly.
    My point is that we have to realize that one of our biggest advantages as WH players is that many players do not know our army. This allows us to often set up the perfect circumstances with which to enact faith profitably.
    I absolutely agree with you on this RZ. I find that most opponents have little knowledge about AoF's. But even if they do, there isn't a whole lot they can do to avoid them. A CC army will still try and advance on you, a shooty army will still try to hang back. Irregardless, our strategy is to get into rapid fire range and they will try and deny us that oppertunity. Your opponent isn't trying to stop you from using AoF's, he or she is trying to deny you the strength of the army which is medium range shooting.
    An experienced opponent already understands your faith, and he will attempt to deny the optimal circumstances, especially if you are customizing your lists for each other.

    In that kind of game (experienced opponent using customized list), the faith acts are a limited quantity. The real pivot in that game is how well you can produce the circumstances that allow your faith acts to flourish.
    Yes they will try to limit the effects but its difficult to do unless they can remain out of combat. For instance, they can't stop a HB ret squad from using DG nor a sera squad or Canoness from using SoM. I know every time I play, my opponent will try and pop my rhinos. So I screen them and use smoke and cover.

    The bottom line is the OP asked:
    Is the use of Faith Points pivotal to winning a match or can they get by on their own, from your own experiences?If you've won games without using Faith Points, give us a little detail.
    The simple answer IMO is a SoB army will not be very successful if they use no acts of faith. I have played my sisters using no faith. The difference is extremely noticible. Hence AoF's are pivital. A pure Sister army not using AoF's is like an eldar army not using Psyker acts or a necron not using WBB.

    Edit: I forgot to mention that this discourse is great! And in case it doesn't come across in the written text, I do greatly respect your oppinion RZ
    Last edited by Redant; August 24th, 2006 at 16:00.

  8. #7
    Senior Member crucial's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    England
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    -41 (x0)

    neat discussion going on here. enjoying it.

    i believe that faith is a bumper for the SoB army. our army has been designed with AoF in mind. so to not use AoF is to be on an obvious disadvantage. whether or not its crucial to winning is another thing.

    also terminators cannot use autocannons... you may have meant those cyclone missile launchers on their backs. they can carry 2 per squad and can fire while moving so yeah... it would probably blow a dominion rhino apart.
    -SONS of RUSS member-

    Exiled until 5thED redo...

  9. #8
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    962
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    37 (x2)

    I meant Assault Cannon instead of AutoCannon. (Why do I keep making that mistake?)
    Thank you for the kind words, Redant.

    I suppose faith is more important to static [tournament] lists than to pre-tuned lists, because it adds flexibility. It sort of allows you to tune your list on the fly. That's a plus, no doubt.

    I think I'm downplaying faith more than Redant, because I don't find the following comparasin useful: Of course the WH army degrades dramaticly when you strip faith from it, leaving all other things equal.

    If I were to build a WH army that doesn't use faith, the list would look a lot different.
    It might even contain Space Marines.
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

  10. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Age
    40
    Posts
    307
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    33 (x1)

    Yes, a non-faith WH army could use SM, but then it wouldn't be a Sisters army, and the original question was directed at Sisters players, not WH players. Faith is essential to the Sisters, but not to the Witchhunters. All part of the nature of Inquisition lists, the distinction between the Inquisitors and their troops, and the Chambers Militant. They may be in the same codex, but in many ways they're more like two allied forces.

  11. #10
    Junior Member BattleSisters's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    canada
    Age
    40
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    I have gone through entire games with out using a single act of faith(More or less I forget about the use of them.) But the games that I have used them have been very success full and have had many games being cursed at because of them.

    BattleSisters

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts