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Well this post doesn't have much point to it, just something I wanted to mention.
In a 1000pts list Exorcists are fantastic yes? Well thats what one would beleive anyways, before I've been really successful with them but after playing a game yesterday I found out how devastating it can be if they are taken out.
During the game my friend was having a feild day with my Mechanised force, five tanks on the board and he managed to roll a six on the penetrating hits chart for everyone of them eventually. My two Exorcists were among the first to go after failing to kill his single hammerhead in three salvos (Though one of them did get a kill off on a broadside).
In the end only one of my Battle sister transports made it into his lines (and thank god too), they managed to wipe a squad of firewarriors out, two drones flying by themselves (devilfish) and kill one of the Commanders Bodygaurds while keeping them in combat to allow my cannoness to mosh them the following turn. But after my Exorcists failed and subsiquently got destroyed....my heavy flamers from that one squad that got through destroyed that hammerhead (no DG either at that point due to there only being three of them left, from rear armour hit too).
Hero's of the day would have to be that one squad (won me the game they did) and have sunken my views of the exorcists.
So are Exorcists really that reliable? Well the potential is there but in the end if you pitch them against armour 13 vechicals they begin to struggle.
Exorcists are not reliable, you can tell that by reading the rules. Anything which can swing from 1 to 6 shots is going to have a wildly variable performance depending on whether the dice gods are for or against you that day. In any case if it's your opponents day to get the sixes, then no unit type in the world is going to save you. Your bad luck with the Exo's was made up with by a stunning performance by a handful of brave Sisters who refused to fear and fought on. Next game you may find the opposite happens, the Exo's blow away half the enemy army while the Sisters fail every morale check and faith test.
In a game where so much is determined by dice no unit is really reliable, even the most bad-ass of units can fluff it. I've seen threads where people relate tales of impossible victories by weak units over the strong (or appalling fluffs the other way round). Exo's are perhaps a little more prone to this than others, but in general, and especially when you're using them in multiples, they're good enough to be invaluable. In any case, it's not as if the Sisters have much of an alternative.
Hmmm... It sounds more like bad luck than unreliable. For their cost Exos are OK. Of course, their weapon is not a S10 Tau marvel, and they will struggle with high armor values, but I think that they are good (light?) armored tank-killers...
Hiero, you should thank your lucky stars that you won after an early material loss of 25%.
THen again... it was only Tau. heh
I've been tempted to call the Exorcist a "Medium" or "Medium-Heavy" tank.
Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70
Yeh, after I lost that second exorcist all my tanks were either gone or immobilised. At that point I'd given up hope of winning tbh, but I thought I'd take down as many Tau as I can with me before the game ended and did one of those desparate For the Emperor charges on foot.....actually paid off.Originally Posted by Red Zinfandel
For their point cost? Railhead is only 165 points with all the needed upgrade to be able to reroll immoblise result plus be able to move 12" and still shoot that railgun. It's the same as an Exorcist being front ARX plus once it starts moving it's darn hard to destroy. An Ionhead with the same upgrade would be even cheaper at 130 points still retain that STRX APX heavy X weaponry that can move 12" and shoot at 3+ dice roll. Chaos 3-Lascannon Predator with mutated hull would only cost 175 point for a front AR14 side AR13 vehicle. Even an Imperial Lemen Russ at front ARX with 1 battle cannon plus 3 heavy bolters would cost 155.
I personally think Exorcist should have some extra effect to amend the unreliability of the exorcist launcher... something like a 2D6 armour penetration when you roll a 6 to hit against vehicles. Front AR13 vehicle isnt too hard to destroy.. and by using up a turn to attempt on destroying an AR13 vechicle then get destroyed on the next turn isnt a good trade IMO.
Dont get me wrong though, Exorcist is a truely great anti-personel tank but it isnt that great. I would take something else if I have the choices :rolleyes:
Last edited by Lost Nemesis; August 25th, 2006 at 03:04.
Anima Tactics - try it out!
Good points Nekochen - I did not know the point costs for these other vehicles...
Really after comparison with all those tanks do you really think you have that bad of a deal?Originally Posted by nekochen
hammerhead, sure it's a durable skimmer, but it has only 1 tankbusting shot, to your 3.5. Also it's sort of a signature thing the tau are good for. They have their firepower you have your faith.
Chaos Predator: the base predator with the lascannons costs about the same as the Exorsist, sure it's armor is better with mutated hull, but it then also costs more. The exorcist ain't no 175 pts. Also consider the firepower is actually fairly comperable. your 3.5 average shots, to it's 3 with one twin linked. Against infantry there is no practial difference, and against tanks you get the same # of average penetrating hits. The predator had a glancing edge, but you have all your shots tied to the same gun, so you can move 6" and fire for full effect, this is something that the predator can't do in that configuration. My evaluation says fair trade.
Leman Russ: First the battle cannon and the heavy bolters are mutually exclusive. The battle cannon is a nice gun, but only hits properly 1/3 of the time. Also it hit a vehicle only once with a str 8 shot. Overall it's better against Meq armor or worse, but inferior against 2+ armor & tanks. It does have heavier armor than the exorsist, but not greatly more, and it's point value is higher to pay for it. Lastly it again is again a tank from an army who's "thing" is it's armor.
Now for the OP:
I can understand why the exorsist didn't do well for you against tau. I wouldn't expect it to. Tau are known for their ability to take out armor. It's nothing wrong with the tank it's just tanks in general are not the best thing to take against them. It's part of Tau's balance: great at taking down armor, terrable at dealing with CC infantry in their face. The way I see it your tanks in all their dying just kept them busy till your sisters could do the job.
So I guess my point is that the Exorsist is just fine, it needs nothing. Other than apparently your confidence.
Votewar MKV 2nd place. . .
Back from internet limbo, and glad to be here.
Where did you get 3.5 from? The exorcist has the same chance of rolling 1 to 6 each time it fires, so playing with averages over six turns of shooting (at best) just won't work. Also, while the exorcist isn't a bad deal, it is also the only long range antitank weapon the sisters have. While I agree it doesn't need any additions to it, it is not some sort of supertank people make it out to be.
On to your comparisons: Sure, the hammerhead might have only 1 shot, but this shot is far more likely to destroy the target once it lands, plus it can be complemented by up to 6 broadsides shooting at other targets. Let's not even mention the fact that it is a skimmer and thus very difficult to destroy.
As for the chaos predator, yes, it costs more if you start adding a lot of extras to it. They also add to its survivability. A single weapon destroyed result on the exorcist will knock it out of the battle. A predator with 3 LCs will need 3 weapon destroyed results to knock it out, and let's not even mention parasitic possession. And while the chaos predator will only be able to shoot one LC if it moves, its chances of survival if deployed in LoS are much greater than an exorcist's.
Leman Russ, I would not rate it so much as a tank hunter but as an infantry killer. But both the IG and both flavours of marines have the option of fielding large numbers of lascannons, missile launchers, etc. something that sisters don't have the luxury to do, so even if their tanks miss or don't destroy the target then they have infantry weapons that can help. The sisters don't have that luxury. When a LR or a Predator gets destroyed then the IG or Chaos player does not have to start moving his meltaguns forward through killing fields to engage at close range, their heavy weapon squads or tank hunting havocs can do the job quite easily from their cozy cover.
The exorcist doesn't seem very great all of a sudden, does it? Sure, in theory it is great with its 3.5 shots on average, but when you start going against AV 14 vehicles and roll consecutive 1s for number of shots, theory just doesn't cut it anymore. You cannot make out a trend from 6 rounds of shooting. If you roll enough dice then the result might approach 3.5, but from 6 rounds of shooting it will never do that. It is as probable that you will end up with an average of 2.1 or 6.0 or even 1.0.
I don't know where you all are getting. The Exorcist is the Exorcist and won't change due to debating.
It's the best tank WH can take, the Immolator with Multimelta is not even in the competition. If you want to play Hammerheads play Tau, if you prefer Mutated Predators play Chaos. But if you want to play WH you're stuck with the Exorcist, and i don't think it's that bad. How many play without them? If they would be bad no one would play them.
And you don't have to take them if you do not like them, no one's forcing you.
You can always help the Exorcist with tank hunting Seraphims or SoB:s with Melta if you're not pleased by it's performance.
"And that, my liege, is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped"