Can Space Wolves have two "venerable" dreadnoughts? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 6 of 6
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    196
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    9 (x1)

    Can Space Wolves have two "venerable" dreadnoughts?

    Ok, before we begin, please let me assure everyone that I'm not a power gamer and I'm not trying to utilize some obscure loophole. If a fairly definite answer cannot be established, I won't be using two venerable dreadnoughts, but I need to ask before I can know, so . . .

    The Space Wolves codex lists two different entries for taking dreadnoughts. One is the Space Wolf Venerable Dreadnought that can be taken as either an HQ or as an Elite. You can only take it once. Then it has a different entry for SW players to take dreadnoughts according to the basic SM codex.

    The SM codex allows you to upgrade a basic dreadnought to venerable for a certain cost. This venerable dreadnought, except for the same name, is very much different from the HQ/Elite SW dreadnought. The SM codex only allows you to upgrade one dreadnought to venerable status (if I'm reading it correctly). The kicker is that there is a tremendous difference in the stats, weapons loadouts, and etc, between the two different "types" of dreadnoughts . . .

    . . . so can you take an HQ SW dreadnought and then a regular dreadnought that is upgraded to venerable status?

    "There will never be enough peace in the universe unless first there is enough war." - Farseer Eleuflin

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Senior Member blood_angelmarine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Age
    28
    Posts
    313
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    10 (x1)

    No. At least according to Army Builder EX you can't. Space Wolf normal dreadnoughts do not have the venerable option so if you want a venerable dread then you must take a space wolf one. So you are still limited to one venerable dread just like the rest of us space marines. Peace

    Krevzi:w00t:

    W-1 L-0 D-0

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Worcester, MA
    Age
    37
    Posts
    655
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    84 (x2)

    I would say no, you can have only one venerable dreadnought. Here's why:

    Page 7 of the space wolf codex lists a Venerable Dreadnought as 0-1 as either HQ or Elite. So you can only have up to 1 venerable dreadnought as HQ, and 3 other dreads as elite choices. So space wolves allow 1 Ven. Dread, and whatever is allowed in the space marine codex, in total. Not a lot of help there.

    Continueing, while reading the (newer) Space marine codex, on page 32 under the venerable list under the dreadnought, it says "one Dreadnought per detatchment may be upgraded to venerable..." Notice it doesn't say one dreadnought in the elite choice may be upgraded to venerable.

    Therefore, according to the space marine codex, you could take your SW venerable as and Elite using the SM codex, but then you could not then take another as an SW HQ choice because you would have more than 1 venerable dreadnought per detachment. Conversely, you could take your SW ven. dread as an HQ choice, but then you couldn't take a SM ven dreadnought as an elite choice because you already have one ven dreadnought in the detachment.

    Using legal jargon and careful word consideration, I personally think the "per detachment" wording pretty much answers the question without any other acceptable readings, powergaming attempt or not. Obviously, the SW codex allows you to choose a more powerful ven. dread stats-wise, and your single ven. dread should be chosen from that list. Any other dreads would be a standard elite choice.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "Listen up you primitive screwheads ... see this ... this is my BOOM-stick!" - Ash

    "I told you, it's not Pink! It's Light Red!" Donut on his new power-armor.

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    196
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    9 (x1)

    Oh well, you guys are probably right . . . I was just hoping that maybe the two models weren't really classified as the same thing so as not to conflict because despite the name, they are incredibly different units. But oh well.

    From my limited experience, it appears that venerable dreads really rock, but I just don't know if a normal dread is good enough . . . although I'm certainly willing to playtest.
    "There will never be enough peace in the universe unless first there is enough war." - Farseer Eleuflin

  6. #5
    Senior Member Morkai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Age
    29
    Posts
    846
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    26 (x2)

    Well I aslo play wolves and have spotted this seeming loophole as well. As aforementioned, one Dread may be upgraded to a venerable dreadnought per detachment. As the Space wolf venerable is never in fact upgraded to it's lofty station it would seem we could take two. Their name may be the same but they are in fact completely different units. Along those lines i would say yes.

    However as it is a rather serious loophole I would leave it up to you opponent to decide which way it goes. To cover this eventuality, I've crafted two powerfist wielding grey hunters to cover the cost of the venerable-isation. Just discuss it with your opponents and at worse roll a dice. We won't know for sure until GW either updates the FAQ or our codex.
    Gargrimz Green Deff
    W:10 D:4 L:5

  7. #6
    Now with STFU flames! Caluin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Age
    36
    Posts
    5,917
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    708 (x8)

    Pete Haines addressed this awhile back in the UK forums. For the longest time they had a bunch of questions that were answered by him stickied, but recently they removed it. Why, I'm not sure.

    But his answer to this particular question was "At the moment, let's go with "no, you may not."

    Not exactly a resounding, concrete answer, but at least you can say Pete Haines gave you some form of an answer.


+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts