Welcome to Librarium Online!
a am trying to get more race specific tactica.
eg vs necrons 1st take out... then... also dont try to ...
vs tyrnids try to get into cc with... or for the first 2 rounds create a rtreating firing Line concentrating on ... units first
vs SM create 1 stong flank...blah blah blah.
i am new to the game and facing new armies i have never taken on is ... intimidating
as i cont. to play i wish to create a more comprehensive tactical guide for variations with in each race.
eg Fast attack SMs or mostly Multi wound model nid's etc
please help me get started with your most basic advice.
who to DS against/ who to hold back from (ie do i use my GKPA as fast A or Troops)
Which RACE HQ can i successfully use my callidus assas. against
any advice welcome.
this type of race specific advice doesnt seem to have been covered recently(all in one spot)
ps please no advice on our strenths (obvious) rather tactic and stratergies.
i use 2 DREADS(anti armor) 1 Inq and ret. as fire base (32")
two small ST troops and @ 2 large GKPA squads (shooty)
as well as 1 x 6 man termi HQ
and a callidus
if that makes any diff.
dont be shy comment on anything...come on..
No one is being shy, just unwilling to approach the task you've just requested. Race-specific DH tactics & strategies, broken down to even include enemy list variants and specific enemy units... that is a *HUGE* task.
The best advice I can actually give you is to borrow friends' codices and read up on them. You'll do a lot better against new armies just by knowing their abilities - and you should pick up on a few weaknesses this way as well. Now, I don't mean to try and make your opponent give you his codex at the start of the game, that'd take too long. Just see if you can't skim through as many codices as you can in your free time.
I mean, I myself don't even have a specific strategy to use against X army Y unit. I look at the force as a whole, and just adapt based on what they're going to be able to do to me.
Oh, and just a friendly comment: part of the reason you might not have recieved any feedback so far is the language used in your post. I know, I know, it's the internet - but the people here come here on their own free time and offer to help others. You should attempt to use complete sentences and correct spelling, that kind of thing. Just makes it easier for everyone!
Megalo is absolutly correct, it would be a paper sized document. Not that we shouldn't attemp it, but it would be some work. There is a really good one in the IG section that was done by Triumph of Man that is worth a read.
There is one "rule" I use in all of my games with my Grey Knights. Shoot, Shoot and Shoot some more until finally assaulted vs Assaulty armies like 'Nids, Orks, Dark Eldar and Get into CC as fast as you can vs Shooty armies like IG, TAU, and shooty Space Marines.
Grey Knights are shootier than some armies and better at CC than others. We are masters of none.
Last edited by Diggums Hammer; August 29th, 2006 at 16:22.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
If you are willing to compile such a lagre amount of info yourself Grey Nut. I suggest that you post a thread on all of the other armies forums and ask for advice on what they see as their armies strengths and weaknesses against DHs.
It might pay to ask one army at a time though.
Wow, that seems like a lot of work.
It's worth a krak!
Also, please look into modifiying your typing to be neater.
Well, Thank you for all the advice.
I feel that asking others for advise on their own forums is going to be less than productive with tons of useless and slanted comments likely to be posted.
I was hoping for key thoughts for now(from DH players who have tasted victory and felt the sting of defeat)
Let's break it down for the moment.
1) Against whom do you recommend not deep striking.(or under which circumstances)?
2) Against which Forces do you recommend deploying at the back of your deployment zone?
3) When face to face with Necrons Which advice would you give.(target priorty)?
Good ideaLet's break it down for the moment.Tyranids, first and foremost. Stormbolters work wonders against their rank & file, and they move so damned fast that you'll just end up Deepstriking your GK almost within your deployment zone again. Find cover, form up into effective lines, and sit & shoot. Psycannons work well here too - Incinerators are too short ranged to be truly effective against anything with fleet of foot/claw.1) Against whom do you recommend not deep striking.(or under which circumstances)?
Similar idea with most Ork armies too - they move fast, they have high numbers, they have low armor, and they're good in an assault. Use your ranged power (and DH really does have that, despite some people's ignorance of that fact :rolleyes: ) to thin the herd down, as it were, before they close to assault. You have the benefit of them not moving as fast as Tyranids, so you can do more damage as they approach. Kult of Speed armies, of course, move much faster - but with mainly AV10 vehicles, you shouldn't be worried.
IG and Tau have similar "unarmored horde" tendancies, but because of their reliance on ranged warfare, you don't want to sit & shoot here.Well, pretty much the two mentioned above. Sit back and shoot.2) Against which Forces do you recommend deploying at the back of your deployment zone?
I can't think of any other army against which you should just sit around and wait - GK have great melee skills, use 'em.Lords. They can make WBB rolls easier, they can teleport, and they're no slouches in a fight. Aside from that, just go for the straight up Warriors and try to make the army phase out.3) When face to face with Necrons Which advice would you give.(target priorty)?
The Monolith, everyone's favorite thing to hate, is just too hard to kill. Especially when DH's anti-tank power comes from a) inducted IG/SM, b) melee attacks, and c) vehicles. Vehicles are absolutely a no-no against Necrons because even the standard Warrior can pop one without much trouble. DH/GK vehicles are either very fragile (transports) or very expensive (LR/LRCs), and both end up being a waste here. If you have inducted IG/SM, you should focus their firepower on Warriors mainly, to get the enemy to phase out - you'd need lots of luck for a penetrating hit with any IG heavy weapon! And melee attacks, not worth it - even with meltabombs and the like you're not going to do well against 'em. Just focus on the rest of the army.
I feel as though I should contribute a little bit to this topic, as prior to my interest in becoming a Grey Knights player I was (and still am) a very avid ork player. While I've never played with my Grey Knights against Orks, I have played with my Orks against Grey Knights, and I've witnessed some certain things that the Grey Knights can do best that really push their advantages against Orks.
Here's a couple ground rules for you - avoid close combat. Orks are mean bastards simply by virtue of the number of attacks they get, and pretty much every close combat I've seen between a selection of Ork troops and a selection of any other troops has ended in favor of the Orks. If it comes down to you getting in assault with Orks, be absolutely positive you can get the charge in yourself - Orks are devastating on the charge, as not only does it afford them an extra attack per ork (which can be awful in large mobs) but they can easily double their initiative and basically smear you before you get the chance to fight back. Again: Do not let the orks charge you if you can help it.
Instead, I would probably mass regular PAGKs and push The Shrouding for all it's worth. Orks are notoriously bad at shooting to begin with, and to make things worse most of their weapons have poor range. If you can get just inside your maximum firing range and then fall back while they try and push up to assault you, you will get a lot of opportunity to shoot at them while receiving relatively little fire in kind. There is the occasional ork player who is obsessed with dakka - and while the orks have terrible accuracy, they do have a penchant for a large number of shots.
It's important to prevent orks from getting a proper charge on you. Sometimes, though, that isn't always possible. With the new Cities of Death out, there tends to be a lot of building cover on the boards I've been playing on recently - utilize it properly to protect yourself against ork charges (Units in cover being assaulted have an initiative of 10). At best, if they come prepared with grenades, you'll strike simultaneously.. but most ork players I've seen don't bother with nades.
I would under no circumstances bring Terminators to fight orks. Their improved armor is terribly wasted against the orks, who reduce your Terminator's 2+ save to a 4+ by virtue of their choppas. And almost every ork can do that. Orks are one of the few instances where I could picture myself going for a purgation psycannon squad, particularly versus harder ork targets like a warboss + nob retinue or cyborks, who invoke invulnerable saves on a regular basis.
The complicated part comes when you run up against an Ork Kult of Speed - which is one in every two ork players, from my experience. There's loads of vehicles, though usually transports, and they will get in your face in a hurry. The benefit to this is that there's usually a lot less orks - a Kult of Speed is almost entirely dependant upon massive damage with their first charge. If it fails, they're in trouble, as the maximum amount of orks per squad they can bring is 10 (10 max in a vehicle) and they will start to have serious problems once a few of them die in mobs that size. Orks are designed to be a massive horde army, and a KoS lets them get in close combat really fast, but if they're overcome on the charge you've generally got yourself in a good position to clean up the squad.
Trukks are usually negligible after the orks are gone. They'll run around and generally be an annoyance, but they're not that bad. They're only strength 10 all 'round, so you have a chance of at least denting them a bit with your stormbolters. Most ork vehicles are open-topped, which gives you a +1 against them, so you have about as good a chance of hitting the trukks as they do of hitting you. Take good care of your dreadnought, though, if you have one - a lot of the time these Trukks are armed with Str 8 Rokkits, and one lucky shot from a trukk is all it takes to remove your anti-armor.
Battlewagons are a large threat. They're usually packed with 20 orks, and a whole lot of dakka. If your opponent has one, I'd spend a good deal of time focusing on bringing it down with your own dreadnoughts or anti-tank weaponry of choice. The upside to this is that if you do manage to blow the vehicle up, you have just potentially hurt a large number of orks, so it's a win-win. Occasionally you will find a 'Doomsday Pattern' battlewagon that is literally just 30 or so big shootas with wheels - the crew is armed to the teeth with shootas and shooting out the sides and the wagon itself is armed with as much bolt-on weaponry as possible. It should be fairly obvious that this sort of vehicle should be a high priority to kill - push your range advantage and the shrouding while trying to bring it down with your dreads or other anti-armor options.
There's one tactic suggested in the Ork codex called the 'Dread Bash', or 'Iron Wall'. It involves a lot of Killer Kans & Dreadnoughts with footslogging orks advancing behind them. You'll also run into the occasional looted vehicle, typically a Russ or Basilisk. I've been considering this situation, and I can't really tell you how to deal with it other than to abuse The Shrouding and the ork's poor shooting skills for all it's worth and focus on these targets as best you can with your anti-armor.
Buggies are a pain in the ass. They block line of sight, and the most common kind is a Skorcha buggy which just drives up and templates all over your troops. I'd recommend trying to use elevated terrain to protect yourself from them - if you have a building with multiple floors, put it to good use and get yourself out of it's range. Elevating yourself is a good strategy anyway - Orks have to clamber all the way into and up the building to get into a proper combat with you that way, and getting into the building usually involves a difficult terrain test in my experience, so if you're more than two floors up I'd say you have a decent chance of getting an extra round of shooting in.
Massed Warbike armies are tremendously rare, and an odd creature for Orks. I probably wouldn't worry about it so much, and just bring a couple Psycannons - the warbikes are as expensive as a normal Grey Knight, and rely a lot on shooting which you can counter with the Shrouding and a 5+ invulnerable save that you can easily negate.
I'll add more to this as I think of it.
Edit: for typoes.
Last edited by Ein; September 5th, 2006 at 04:43.
i did however deep strick 2 squads of GKPA behind an advancing horde of
'nids just yesterday.(round 2)
throwing their game plan out the window .
half turned back only to die (incl. hive tyrant haha)
and then my Hq and other troops took out his synapes creatures near our deployment zone... ah the slaughter of lurking gaunts was great indeed.
fortunately his Gene Stealers were to far of to get into Cc (bad deployment with brood Lord)
i Must admit it did look terrifying as he set up though...sooo many vs sooo few.
any advice vs Eldar Armies with tons of snipers?