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I am thinking of starting a Marine army, just a few problems. Are Marines considered to be the "noob force"? Basically the race most noobs tend to play and find easiest to use.
I think to myself that their are more specialist races out there, which in hand take less thinking and less tactical development in battle circumstances. For example, Tyranids are specialist CC, so the only thing you have to think about when using them is getting them close. Tau and IG are specialist in shooting, so no ifs or buts you have to stay away from the enemy and blow them into next millenia.
Whereas Marines have no specialty, so they have to develop stratergies early game and adjust them as the game goes on. Obviously most armies have to do this but the Tyranids, IG and Tau have major objectives in mind. Getting close or getting far away!
I am only using Tyranids, IG and Tau as examples as they were the best comparitive i could think of, i dont mean to single them out!
Is all of this right? Do Marines take alot of planning and preperation in certain battle circumstances? Or is everything i have stated rubbish?
I want to play a race that takes alot of thinking and planning, so i do not get bored!
Replies are greatly appreciated!
Originally Posted by Ash_Oblivion
this is why SM,s are for you. There are so many variations to play with them. The trait system offers you so many options i cant see why anyone would get bored. Plus there are different chapters that offer specialization as well.
So start up a vanilla army. Tinker around with it and ill bet you will find that SM's are far from noobish.
I actually find Marines to be very diverse in the different stratagies that you can use. In part becuase of the Chapter Creation Rules, and partly becuase of the way marines are. See, marines are the best at everything.
I don't mean that marines are better in CC then every race, or have better weapons, or shoot better, but when you put 'everything' together, marines do it the best.
This also allows you to really tailor your army the way you want, you can make an more assulty type army, or a more shooty type army, or go for the balance army.
In part, what you said about stratagy is correct, Marines are not the most difficult army to play and win with. However, there are so many different ways you can play them, that this small fact IMO is overshadowed.
Plus, Marines really are a great army to start with. If you find an army you like more, there is never a shortage of people that will pay a descent price for your SM stuff.
here we go
Marines are easy to elarn but hard to master.
it is true that most beginners play SM. This is probably mostly due to three things:
1. SM come in the basic box
2. The imagery of 40k is closely tied in with SM
3. SM are a "forgiving" army. Due to all models having good armor and above average characteristics (WS, BS, S and T) small mistakes are not as damaging in the course of a game as they would be for a more specialized army.
Marines are the ultimate allround force and with a bit of preparation you can write up an army lsit for every occasion and win.
The problem is always that you have an army that can do a bit of everything but is not the master of one thing (the jack-of-all-trades approach). You will always loose against an army that has specialized in one discipline and forces you to play on their terms. For example fighting against Genestealers in HTH or shooting it out with a tank heavy IG.
So the trick is to keep a flexible list/set up and denying the opponent his strength while playing you to your own. While this is of course true for all armies, with the marines in can be tricky due to you having to find your specialisation first (especially with the trait system now).
So there is a lot of planning and thinking involved before (army list/traits) and during a game.
I almost sound like a Guru or a Sensei now.
Does that anwer your question?
Shut up and play.
Well thanks alot guys! I think i will go for marines, i bought the IG codex not long ago, and they have a "doctrines system" which when i read through i found useless! I wouldnt touch any of the doctrines if my life depended on it! I wouldnt ever loose a unit for the ability to have independant commisars in my army! IMO i found the doctrines so useless! Are the traits the same as this?
Thank you guys!
NO, the traights give you ways to break the normal Force Orginization Chart rules... or more accuratly, where your army goes on the FOC. So, for example, a dreadnought is normally an Elite choice, so you can only have 3 of them. However, there is a traight that allows you to also field them as Heavy Supprt, allowing you to field up to 6 of them.
So the traights give you ways to break the rules with how and where you put squads in your army, and how you put your army together.
So if i was to field more Dreadnoughts what kinda disadvantages would i be facing? How does it work? Like what traits can you take? I could go to GW and sit in there reading for hours but i would much rather hear it from someone! Get oppinions etc.
The disadvantages work basically the same way... they limit you in some way. You can't take this type of unit, or you are more limited to this type of unit. However, 99.9% of the time you can pick a disadvantage that will not affect your list at all, becuase you get to pick your disadvantage, just like you pick your advantage. so you can pick a disadvantage that says you can't have any allies. Well...if your playing an army 100% from the SM codex, this does nothing to hurt you. Or you can pick a disadvanate the severly limits your ability to field big tanks...not a problem if you don't own or don't want to have any.
Marines are all about flexibility (like Lamenter said). Each unit complements another unit in a unique way, and you have to use that to your advantage. Like an assualt squad receiving cover from a tactical squad to get up the field.
Don't forget about the allies marines can take. Marines can field Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters too (but the rules are more complex than you think). Allies can fill certain roles that Space Marines cannot. See some Tactica for details.
Marines are far from being a Noob force. Sure, other armies are more specialized, and if you like that, go for it. And yes, alot of beginners play marines, and if you don't like that, then get a different army.
Think about other things too, not just how they fight. Think about fluff, and how they would look all painted.
Ahh right yeah so it is miles better than the doctrines! They were a waste of fluff pages!
Yeah the painting is a big thing for me, i love the models, i suppose it is possible to convert with marines quite a bit, and i love the fluff! There are plenty of novels out there for me to read!
Thanks alot for the support guys!