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It never fails. I get started on a new forum and two weeks in I am forced to make a post showing just what a newb I am. I freely admit, I am so new to Warhammer I smell of fresh green pine. I've been looking at traits for over two weeks. Accordingly, I have been listening to everything everyone has to say on the subject. It seems go be a general concensus (i.e. >50%) that the single best trait is Cleanse and Purify. My question: why is this? Is it getting two extra plasma shots per squad (max)? It seems like you would overheat at least once every turn per unit with a rapid firing plasma squad.
Is it the two melta's? Again, why? It seems like meltas on a tac squad might not be the best thing, since any tank can out-maneuver you to keep 12" away. Of course, if they move 12" you've already done some good by keeping it from firing, but I digress.
I'm not saying those who say this trait are the best are wrong--far from it. Indeed, I believe they are probably right, but I don't see it and I want to if it's there. Due to my great love of Landspeeders I will probably only take one advantage, and if this really is the best bang for the buck I want it. But I need some people to help me understand.
Oh, and also I have heard that this trait is sick with infiltrate. But again I don't get it. My understanding is that this is to kill off armor quickly. Is this correct? If so, how effective is the tactic? Couldn't I achieve the same thing more safely with "Suffer Not" and "Don't be Seen?"
Finally, if you don't think CAP is the best *single* trait I could take, what is? Again, love the 'speeders so I'll probably only get one. Thank you in advance for all your answers. I feel like the answer is there, if only I can be made to see it.
I remain in the Light of the Emperor,
I like it because I like to burn things :w00t:
*Blows out the'light' of the Emperor*
C&P is so useful because you can fire like crazy while still mobile.
It's the best trait to take advantage of Drop Pods with, and they're what makes SM so evil.
Even if we footslog with the Meltaguns, the tanks that are oh-so maneuverable must use that to keep away from us. So with a bit of skillful application we can keep them where we want them.
2 Flamers against nids is very nice.
2 Plasmas against Deathwing is very nice.
2 Meltaguns against Eldar or pretty much anything is cool.
being able to fire a Flamer to wipe out heaps of the weaklings, then the Meltagun/Plasma gun to definately finish off that other is awesome :woot!:
Hope it helps.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
first, there is no 'best' trait. All the traits are very different, and it depends on the type of army you want to play. If you are playing a shooty type army, where you have a lot of long-range high-power guns, then C&P is gonna be almost useless to you.
But what makes C&P such a good trait, is the ability to get an extra special weapon, at the cost of a heavy weapon. In a squad that is going to be moving around a lot, a heavy weapon is useless. but special weapons are often just as powerfull, they just have shorter rangers.
Take a plasma gun for example. Against a low-save army like Orcs, or nids it's no better then a bolter... worse actually cause you can kill yourslef. But against a MEQ army (Marine equivelant...3+ save) they are VERY valuable. As a marine, you have a 66% chance of hitting with it, and when you hit, you only fail to cause a wound on a role of 1, and becaue of its AP value nobody gets a save against it. In a squad of say 6 marines, you normally have one plasma gun, and 5 bolters. 4 of the 5 bolter will hit (I'm assuming no rapid fire) Out of 4 hits, you will cause 2 wounds, which at 3+ your opponent will probably save both of them...or at least one. In rapid-fire range, assume 6 will hit, 3 wounds, and only 1 will go unsaved. So your one guy with the plasma gun is about as strong as the other 5 guys in the squad put together.
Now put two of those guns in one squad.... See? It makes your unit twice as strong agaisnt MEQ armies.
But again, this is totally dependent on what type of army you play. Persoanlly, I love Drop Pods, so C&P is great for me.
You say you like Speeders, and will use a lot of them, ok...but how are you gonna support them? Are you planning on having lots of long-range support for them? Devestator squads with Missle Launchers and 5 or 6 man tac sqads with Plasma cannons or las cannons? then C&P will be useless for you.
Last edited by Sinjin; September 1st, 2006 at 15:35.
Ah, yes, a very good point about Marine-Equivalent armies. I suppose that the almost-guaranteed kills of the plasma gun are worth the occasional meltdown. Though the gets hot rolls still bother me if you're rapid-firing these things. As it happens, I absolutely love deep-striking and 'pods, so perhaps this is the trait for me after all. This has all been very useful so far. Now, if infiltrate is mainly used to get 2x melta squads near tanks, is there a way of supporting these units, or are they sacrificial lambs?
Oh, and <E!_Mance>, how dare you engage in such heresy?
In the shadow of the former light of the emperor I remain,
Here is the deal, bolters are fine, BUT plasma and meltas are better b/c they instant kill many enemies, plus they bypass armor, plus they can take down vehicle. The more plas/melta you have, the more of a threat you can be to the things that really hurt you like armor, independant characters, and things like terminators.
So the more special weapons you can have the more effective you can be ('Can be', not 'will be'. The 'will be' is up to your tactics and the fickle dice!!)
That is it in a nutshell.
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
ANY squad that infiltrates, deep strikes, or Drop Pods by itself would be sacrificial. But there are lots of way to support such a squad.
1) have more then one squad doing it. Whatever of the above methods you are using, use it for more then 1 squad. Unless the squad has a specific purpose...like tank hunting, and then you don't care if it gets wiped out, I would suggest not Deep Striking or DPing with less then 2 full squads.
2) have lots of long range firepower. a dev squad or two, with 4 missle launchers works well.
3) never tried this, and they are weak, and susceptable to small arm-fire, but with your love of speeders, you could even support them by screaming your speeders forward. However, if you do this, keep as much of his army as possable from being able to target the speeder. Use terrain or the drop pods to limit LoS or your speeders will go down.
Yes, speeders are very fragile and I am still learning their abilities. However, so far I have found them to be quite effective. True, once or twice I had to play hide and seek rather than shooting, but then they were alive to come out later when the enemy was pre-occupied and start chewing them up. Fragile as they may be in game-terms, I love the idea of being supported by a vectored-thrust hovering gunship. Who knows, though? I have been playing less than a month, and have barely played a half-dozen games total. Maybe my feelings on them will change, and if so then it's "Two Advantages" all the way.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of supporting a few Deep Strikers with a few speeders. However, I would use Drop Pods, and land them on your opponents flank. This will give your speeder some instant terrain to keep the bulk of his army from your LoS. If you wanted to be really sneaky, you could even use the speeder config that gives you the Multi-melta and the Heavy Flamer. An uncommon combo, and your oppenent will probably see the Multi-Melta, think "tank hunter" and not even relize there is a Heavy Flamer there. Imagine his surprise when a few of his squads are flammed, just before being rapid-fired.
Hm, an interesting point about the MM-Flamer combo. Before I started getting into this I was an avid Magic: The Gathering player for 6 years, and one thing you learn is that the mental/psych-out game can be at least as important as your tactical play itself.
On a separate note: C'mon, use speeders, you know they're cool!