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I bought a Space Marine Commander for my army. What can he be? Just a captain? If so why are there no HQ captains leading armies. Do they suck that bad? I am playing and painting Ultramarines Second Company. About as vanilla as you can get.
Last edited by kevdogg; September 3rd, 2006 at 22:39.
The reason most people don't cake the Captain over the Master is that the difference between the two is only 15 points, and the benefits of the Master are definitely worth it. Especially considering he has that "everybody uses my Ld thing, the +1 leadership the Master has over the Captain is well worth 15 points. :yes:
He can be a Master, the Master has better stats. It's more of a benefit to the model and to the entire army to take a Master.
The leadershipthing is quite good but on top of that he has 150% of the survivability of the Captain.
A youth with his first cigar makes himself sick; a youth with his first girl makes other people sick. - Mary Wilson Little
I like this game but to me that kind of sucks. In the Space Marine Omnibus novels I am reading right now the main character is a captain and now I know in the game he is weaker than the master and weaker still than the Chaplain or the Librarian. I think a commander unit should be at least the equal of those two if he wants to hold a commander position. I am a purist and paying for a master when there should be only one of those in the chapter kind of blows especially when you are playing a core army like Ultramarine 2nd Company.
whats good about the commander is his versatility. you can give him just about any weapon/wargear. his ability (rites) gives you instant 10s on the leadership tests, which is awesome considering normal marines have a leadership of 8. i prefer the chaplain over the commander just because he has a free power weapon and invulnerable save, but i have a master just for situations where he will be more effective (games where there will probably be a lot of leadership checks.
Personally I love using a captain over a master; I play my commander at 101pts or 115pts so I feel no need to put on another fifteen points for someone that can survive just one more hit. There is a difference of 3/36 between leadership nine and leadership ten, so in a game where your squads need to take twelve leadership tests an army with a master will pass all of one more than an army with a captain. (Well I don't know about some of you but that leadership increase doesn't seem like that great when you compare the two.)
archonofdeath pointed out that a master has the ability to survive 150% times the wounds of a captain, unless were talking force weapons or instant kill weapons in which case they both go splat all the same. Now not looking at no-save weapons and outright kill weapons, if your failing two wounds on a captain odds are you may have failed three or more anyway because you stick commanders in the thick of the fighting anyway.
Fifteen points to boost two of the captains stats up doesn't really seem that worth it, though I really don't take a master mainly because my marines are more fluff heavy anyway...
Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
"The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
Member of the Fluff Masters Clan
The Captain is a good character. Only costs 76pts for a armour ignoring CQC monster. Especially when backed up with a command squad (2 more armour ignorers plus special weapons).
The Master is only really an advantage when you have a lot of Veteran Sarges (T Hon's Ld bonus makes a Ld9 all-round bonus obsolete) and give him the Mantle. Even then you still need to arm him.
That guy should only cost 91pts but he ends up costing at LEAST 126pts because of Game Dynamics.
Do not under estimate.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; September 4th, 2006 at 05:59.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
You must be reading the Uriel Ventris stories. They're quite good.
One thing to keep in mind, The units listed in the codex are not to be taken quite that literally.
I.E. : Captain Uriel Ventris would count as a force commander not as a captain.
What your really paying for is the stat line not the title. This is rather common for most older players, but not quite as obvious to newer ones.
Also note that you'll find no character in the game nearly as powerful/durable as they are in the books.
Most people will answer questions based upon what they feel is most useful, not what fits the stories better.
www.HIGHBATTALION.com - it's a link, you click it.
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I think the Captain/Commander is a good HQ choice if you don't want to sink points into your HQ. Right now I'm working on a 1500 pt extreme shooty list. In order to make room for 6 dev squads I've got to take points away from somewhere. I think the Commander will fill that role quite well. Not only is it a low point cost, but the Rites of Battel will help with target priority tests (when shooting 6 squads long range with possible Ld rolls every turn, every point in Ld will matter). Like every other unit in the SM's, the Commander has a role it fills quite well.
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I hear your pain! I too have Ultramarines 2nd Company. First of all, I love the army! It rocks and kicks butt.Originally Posted by kevdogg
Secondly if you choose the Master profile, technically, that would be Marneus Calgar. He has his own profile which kicks butt except it violates the "cardinal rule" of never giving a power fist to an independant character. He must use his PF and he always strikes last in combat.
Here is the sweet thing, though...it is just a game. If you want to use the generic Master stat line as your force commander in a 40 K game, go ahead. Heck, sometimes I even give my Ultramarines traits, just to shake things up! The people I play with around here don't mind at all. It is all about having fun!
You say you are a purist, so you may refuse to make your own master, and only run Marneus. That is fine! Go for it! I have used him many times and I always have a great time. That dude is a serious CC monster! He is also stronger than a chaplain or a librarian.
Once a Marine, always a Marine.