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Hello all, I play a Dark Angels army, and I've been having trouble with only one army, nids. Tarzen and I play each other once and a while and I just lose and lose and lose.
I have a librarian, which I am thinking is now a waste of points, that has FoD and FotA with a powerfist, force weapon, artificer armor, and a jump pack, making him a whole lot of points
I have in my army 8 rocket launchers and 6 lascannons with a whirlwind for heavy weapons choices
then two assault squads each with 3 plasma pistols and a vet sergeant with a power fist.
The problem isn't so much with nidZilla armies that seems really easy. However, its with a Nid army that has over 20 synapse creatures as well as 80+ models running all over the board.
I've tried hitting the big targets but since they can't insta death from anything its become a huge sink in heavy weapons fire which then allows the genestealers to move right on into my firing lines.
Additionally I played a quick tournament of combat patrol missions (400 pts max) with 2 5 man squads with 4 rocket launchers each and then one 6 man squad.
I was doing great until I fought Tarzen's nids, around 30+ gaunts with 6 nid warriors. Again the problem persists, what do I do to stop this?
In both of these examples the problem occurs with what to focus my fire on. Can anyone tell me some successful tactics they have had that has worked to destroy nid armies much like this?
I play DA too and Nids give me hell. But let me offer some advice.
The libby is not as bad as you think. His psychic hood can negate the nid psychic powers, not all, like Synapse, but the killers. So long as the power needs a test, then you can negate it. I'd definitely ditch FotD. With all of that Synapse, the whole army is effectively fearless, so I'd go for something like Might of Heroes or Storm of the Emperor's Wrath.
Your weapon choices are good. Take some Plasma guns to increase AP2, bypassing their armor. Try more Heavy Bolters to focus on the small Nids, thus stopping them before they reach your lines. Your best bet at taking down the Zillas is to focus fire on them. Take them one at a time. Fire until it's dead. Seems fool hardy, but its a sure fire way to bring them down.
Because your severely outnumbered, you will face a tough time. My best advice is to not play his game. Shoot, don't assault. Deploy in the corner, your DA won't run from shooting or psychic powers, forcing him to slog to your lines as you rain fire on his parade.
Shoot, shoot, shoot. That's the way Dark Angels play. That's about all I can say.
I can only offer general advice, as I have never played against nids, but if it's hordes of critters you're facing, maybe replace your lascannons with Heavy Bolters. Just take lots of guns that role lots of dice and chew through as many of them as you can. And maybe a Whirelwind (or 2) dropping mines in front of your guys.
Really deployment is key to you. You want a line of fire as often as possible and want to stay as far away from him as possible. (other wise you might get messy alien goo on your clean armour) Throw in some heavy bolters to kill the smaller ones. Focus your rockets on one of the big guys at a time to kill it. You will most likely not be able to get rid of the synapse it is just to easy to keep it under controll if he has a lot of warriors. It sounds like you are having problems with your army dealing with the stealers and the other small creatures that reach your lines. So what you need to do is keep those assaut squads back and counter charge. This should give you a win in the combat and most likely kill whatever is fighting.
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Keep the Librarian. They are great against nids since you can jump up to the big guy, hit first most times, and send him to the warp with you force weapon. The thing is to remember not to use your powerfist or any psychic powers that turn.
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HelloOriginally Posted by RemiyoLibrarians are good against Nidz for helping clock overcharged Warp Blasts, Force Pikeing Big Nidz and generaly being a nuisance.Originally Posted by Remiyo
The two powers you have however are useless and slightly less useless.
FoD doesn't work against fearless 'Nid synapse creatures, anything in synapse range or fearless Tyranids. Ergo it works against almost nothing.
FotA inflicts a low number of shots which might kill a couple of Gaunts, about half a Genestealer or do nothing to a big Nid.
Veil of Time is an excellent 'Nid slicer. Against large beasties with more than a wound left, force weaponing is better, but against anything else VoD raises your kills on Genestealers from 1.5 on the charge to 3.3+ more than double, it also helps your save making you particularly hard for small Nidz to deal with.I personaly loathe ML, against 'Niddies they are pointless on warriors, worse than Heavy Bolters on small ones and about the same on 2+ save big 'uns. Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon or Lascannon are the best.I have in my army 8 rocket launchers and 6 lascannons with a whirlwind for heavy weapons choicesTarget priority is of the highest importance against Tyranids, Genestealers make up the first threat, then fast 'gaunts (shooty gaunts are no more than an annoyance) finaly, the large 'Nidz will turn up about turn 7.Originally Posted by Remiyo
You can't kill everything, so do what you can to the bigest threat while using weapons to thier greatest effectiveness (frag ML on clumps etc).
For this your units need to come into two cattegories, anti-small and anti-big (some can do both). Small lascannon type squad for example are anti-big, Whirlwinds anti-small. Get the balance right and you'll be unstopable.
LST's deserve a mention, able to do 2+5/6 wounds a turn on a T6 2+ or kill 11 Genestealers sweet, while only Nid firepower can hurt them.
I really agree with Silver Wings about ML not being that great against Nids. I tend to not use Librarians unless its a 2K+ game since they are really expensive, and any HQ unit not geared with Adamant Mantle can get dropped by a big bug in one hit. I've always found Chappies to be the best bang for the buck, but thats not news.
Best units to have are Landspeeders Tornadoes, Pred Annihilators with HB Sponsons, and Termies(not Assault). All of these units can move and put down plenty of AP 5 or better firepower at 24" or better, which will let you bob and weave as the bugs advance. Sounds weird to refer to Termies as a mobile fire platform but thats what they are and with Assault cannons they rock. They are also very good in HTH vs the big bugs but you need to use them carefully and try to get more than 5 together if you want to pull out of an Assault and still function. I'd definitely put Hvy Bolters in your Tac Squads over ML's.
Also, and this goes against normal doctrine, but Vet Sgt's with Fists in your Tac Squads whether your going Shooty or CC. Nids are at some point going to get into HTH, either thru footslogging or infiltrating Ravenors/Lictors to tie things up. The Fist in those squads will allow you to destroy an infiltrating unit before it can tie up your firepower on your turn, and also lets you lay it out for any inevitable CC that will occur.
Vehicles. Nids stink against vehicles of any type. I've kept a genestealer unit with broodlord tied up with 2 ork warbuggies. Imperial gaurd sentinels will totally hose a full unit of gaunts. The trick is to keep the zilla nids away. A unit of barebones speeders or Tornado's with heavy flamers will smack the snot out of basic gaunts freeing up your bigger guns to focus on the big ones.
The other important thing to remember is terrain. Nids kick ass on a heavily terrained table, they take constant advantage of cover, move fast through difficult terrain, and hide the biggies behind LOS blockers to nulify your shooting. You want excesivly less big cover against nids, small terrain peices are fine, big is bad.
To stack odds in your favor, play smaller point games as well. Nids require 1500+ pts to become truly effective. But in smaller games they spend too many points on too few units, fexes and the tyrant, usually.
Get a dreadnought, no frills take a flamer upgrade, they hate that. Alot. It'll draw so much fire it's crazy.
Looking at your list I'd say deep strike the assault squads behind the units if possible. Nid players tend to leave their back exposed alot. Use your WW to funnel the nids into a fire alley, and don't actually assault the fexes/warriors, stand and shoot them, Your plasmas are better than p.swords against nids
The lascannons in the dev squads seem pricy to me, put them in tac squads instead, change out with something if you can, or split the unit into less heavy's per squad so your fire can spread better. Dev squads in general tend to not be effective against nids.
Honestly, your list doesn't seem built to take on hordes well, good for meqs or tank heavy armies, but not hordes. You'll need an addition or 2 to better counter that kind of threat, that way you can swap a unit or 2 to deal with specific opponents.
And how many tac squads do you normally play with? adjusting those squads is a big factor.
So to reiterate: Vehicles, less terrain, less points. If less points or terrain aren't an option you'll need some new peices of kit to handle him well.
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I figured on having the assault sqauds with each having one fist, they are stubborn, and they each have 3 p. pistols. As for the tac squads, I have 6 of em each with a lascannon, then 2 dev squads with 4 missile launchers each. The librarian power I was worried about because the force weapon doesn't insta kill anymore against nids (at least thats what I understand the rules to be with the new FAQ I could be wrong)
I figured on using the rocket launchers to kill clumped up gaunts with the frag missiles on turn 2-3 while on first turn pouring as much heavy fire power as possible into the big monsters methodically destroying the big nasties. I'd like to take heavy bolters, but this is supposed to be my generalist list and so I use the frag missles to get me the real hits I need against armies. I realize that in this list the librarian powers are absolutely worthless against Nids. HOwever against other mob armies (which tend to have crappy LD) its best to have FoD and FotA to force pinning or nasty fallback (again I'm feeling the pangs of having a generalist army)
It seems like I need to refocus on my firing at the big ones and taking a sizeable amount of them in the first couple of turns.
I did not see anything in the FAQ that addresses force weapons. The only Libby items I saw were dealing with Veil of Time and Fury of the Ancients... Are there more FAQ's of which I am not aware (for SM)?Originally Posted by Remiyo
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