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    Veteran Squad Question

    In the Codex entry for the Veterans, it says for their weapons, "All models in the squad may replace their bolters with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon for free." Does this mean that the change MUST affect all models in the squad? I'd like to make a veteran squad mixed between BP/CCW and Bolters, but I'm not sure if it's legal.


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    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    Legal? Yes. Recommended? No.

    The word all does not refer to "all of them or none of them" it simply means that any number of them can.

    However, you typically want to give a squad one job, and give them the best equipment for that job. When you go splitting the squad like that, half of them will almost always be wasted.

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    Good to know. And yeah, I know it's not the best squad efficiency-wise, but it's for a more fluffy army. I sucked something fierce during Medusa V, so I want my army to have the feel of a battered Marine chapter that's had to consolidate its survivors.. So it's heavy on scouts with a single unit of 10 veterans with all sorts of trait upgrades... I want the mismatched weapons to give the feel of a band of survivors that was just sort of thrown together.

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    Tactical Avante-Gard <E!_Mance>'s Avatar
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    Then take as many vets as possible. That'll look like you still have some marines.
    Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
    48W/7D/11L

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    Senior Member Bob Dole's Avatar
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    Mixing marines with bolters with marines with bolt pistols and close combat weapons is, in fact, not a bad idea. An even split is probably not going to do you much good, and adding a few BP/CCW troops into a shooty bolter squad isn't really helping you out much either.

    However, adding a bolter or two to a close combat squad armed with bolt pistols and close combat weapons is not a bad idea. It's not a -good- idea either, it's just that it doesn't change too much. The basic premise is the one or two bolters give you a small (almost negligable) boost to firepower at the cost of some close combat power. If you are looking to be in close combat, of course, gaining shooting power at the expensive of close combat power is not a good trade. However, if you make the assumption that you will lose one or two marines before you make it into combat, you negate the loss of close combat power. By taking the casualties on the bolter armed models, you still have as many BP/CCW troops available as you would have if you armed everyone that way. The risk with doing this is that you may take no casualties.

    If you routinely get into close combat without taking a single casualty, then adding bolters is a bad idea. If you routinely lose one or two marines before you get into close combat, then adding one or two bolters is a good idea. If it varies a lot, then you have to weigh the risk against the advantage.

    If you feel that it's horribly unfluffy to take casualties that way then, well, first I hope you don't use hidden powerfists and secondly think of it as marines picking up dropped weapons as the different configurations become more practical for the situation at hand.
    You play your game, I'll play mine.

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    Well with the traits I'm taking, my Veteran Squads will have True Grit, so having a bolter won't really diminish their close combat capabilities. They'll still retain all the effectiveness in close combat while having a little extra punch at range, and most importantly just feeling nice and fluffy.

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    Illustrator Extraordinair Adrian MalSeraph's Avatar
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    The best combination, on paper, of mixing weapons comes in the form of scout squads.

    Scout Squad (10)
    5x CCW/BP
    5x Combat Shotguns

    Really simple and cheap.

    While the shotgun isn't that high of strength, combined with the bolt pistol shots, that is a high volume of shots. You're likely to cause at least some casualties. And, better yet, you can still charge.

    So in one turn.

    Movement
    6" move

    Shooting
    10 Shotgun
    5 Bolt pistol

    Assault
    6"
    20 attacks on the charge.

    Very nice, in my opinion.

    Adding a Veteran Sergeant with a Powerfist adds to the fun.

    Adrian_MalSeraph

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    Senior Member Valerian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian_MalSeraph

    Assault
    6"
    20 attacks on the charge.
    Adrian,

    I think it's 25 attacks on the charge: 5x3 (for CC Scouts) + 5x2 (for shotgun Scouts).

    Valerian

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    Illustrator Extraordinair Adrian MalSeraph's Avatar
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    Silly Adrian.

    Yes, you're correct.

    But, it's highly effective. The name of the game is casualty maximisation.

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    Senior Member Captain America's Avatar
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    I agree with most of the above. It would be a pretty interesting looking squad, but remember to balance effectiveness with fluff. Finding a happy medium doesn't mean blending it! :shifty: Just kidding... I myself am a fluff addict. I have to be really careful that I don't let my craving for it get in the way of my better judgement, so I hear ya on the fluff issue.

    The thing to remember with veterans is that they should never be used as a multi-purpose unit. They should fill a specific role in your battleplan. They will excel at their objective, but stray from it too much and you'll start thinking like the haters that bash marine veterans every chance they get. To me, blending a bunch of bolt pistols in with bolters will castrate any specific thing they plan on doing, esp close combat. Giving them True Grit on top of it will only benefit 1/2 of the squad, but making them all even more expensive. Once again shooting yourself in the foot.

    Ultimately, these are just suggestions. I hope it doesn't sound too harsh. Do what you like with them. If you enjoy the results of your work, then who can dispute it? Have fun! :yes:
    I'm an American, religious, male and a proud Republican. You have your beliefs and (gasp) I have mine. Deal with it!

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    To be "owned" in a game or otherwise is to be miserably defeated by an opponent or an opposing team.

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