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Brief overview of Elysian Drop-Troops?

2K views 25 replies 6 participants last post by  Cheredanine 
#1 ·
I've been toying with the idea of starting a new army. I'm down to orcs and IG. And in IG I'm drawn to Dropping troops, specifically the Harkoni Warhawk division. However, I just heard about these guys called the Elysian Drop Troops (spelling is wrong, probably).

Can anyone give me a brief overview of the Elysian Drop Troops I have heard so much about? I don't want to shell out 100 bucks for a book (which one are they in, anyway?) just to find out I really don't like them.

Please don't give rules (against forum rules), but any fluff/gameplay/tactics you know of could be of use to try to give me the feel of the army. And if you have another suggestiong as to a dropping-type army, let me know.

Thanks in advance for you help.
 
#2 ·
Sure mate,
ok 1. Eysians drop troops are not codex standard, they are similar but full rules are in Imperial armour 3, special detatchments are covered in IA4, IA1 is also usefull but not truely necessary

Models are Exclusively forgeworld, they can be used with codex IG to make a drop troop or any other army, but there are gaps in the model range (eg there are not las cannon or auto cannon models, drop sentinels are unique.

Basically, for using as elysians, then it follows codes IG, but no heavy weapons in squads, most squads can take demo charges, everyone has drop troop and Iron discipline, some gucci bits of warger (undeslung krack grenade launchers for vet sgts) some gucci stuff like drop sentinels with multi meltas, everyone can take valkyries as transports which is a damn silly thing to do, Vulture gun ships for heavy support, no heavy support platoons, as to how it plays, it doesnt deploy anything at the start, (well you can but why would you?) then everything deep strikes, and drops demos charges and melta weaponry all over the shop, then you hang in for dear life, if you cant deep strike it is very difficult,

Below is a a tactica I wrote, it really applies to codex IG drop troops rather than elysians, cos demo charges make a world of difference, if you trulety want to play drop troops, play elysians, you can find piccis of some of mine in the gallery under my log on


A Doctrine too far - Imperial Guard Drop Troop Tactica

I have been tempted to write this for a while as I find myself saying the same thing over again on the IG forum, this is basically a guide to the uses of the drop troop doctrine available from codex IG. I am going to try and bite my tongue and not mention my Elysians (damn did it already) or general forgeworld goodness that fits so well with the doctrine (Vuture gunships)

So mostly we have all seen “A bridge too far� or “Black hawk down� right? All excited? Want to field an army which deep strikes onto the battlefield and through heroic courage and skill at arms manages to save they day? The look no further (this could put you off the idea for life)

Classically paratroops are used as part of a combined arms operation, taking objectives ahead of an advancing body of troops. This really doesn’t equate to the skirmish scale of 40K but it can be used in the game. Add to this that fact that IG generally stands and shoots relying on putting down a hail of fire for as many turns as possible as the opponent treks towards them, however the drop troop doctrine when applied to a unit means the unit gets fewer turns shooting having missed at least the first one and starts closer to the enemy. Disaster? Not entirely, deep striking isn’t on of those “All or nothing� doctrines, you can give it to selected units, which brings us, rather laboriously, to the first area:

Partly drop troop Armies

This is the most common usage of the drop troop doctrine, the main body of the army is played as standard IG army but selected units are given the deep strike ability in order to “reach out and touch someone�

Objective taking
In theory odd squads can be deep struck onto objectives, a cunning plan, probably best reserved for storm troopers, but don’t expect them to hold onto it if your opponent makes any serious attempt to take it, even a squad of stormies cant cope that well in close combat, rather, if you have units arriving very late, drop them onto objectives that are well clear of your opponent, but this is more or less a target of opportunity rather than a planned tactic.

Suicide squads
By far the most common use of drop troop doctrine is the creation of a suicide squad that lands next to an opponent unit and destroys it, subsequently they tend to get wiped out but some units are very effective at this. The two riders on this are that firstly you can not guarantee the squad wont deviate/scatter, often this makes them completely ineffective so don’t rely on them as an absolute, secondly the nature of deep strike means you wont be using these squads in turn 1 so don’t depend on them to take out armour or fast elites that will do their damage early on. Classics include:

Special weapons squads with flamers and/or demo charges – these can devastate full squads of the biggest, hardest units in your opponents’ army, and rather pleasingly the demo charge reinforces the suicide nature of the squad by deviating back on to its own unit half the time

Special weapons squads with meltaguns and/or demo charges – again can devastate MEQs but clearly can take out tanks very effectively

Veteran squads (small in numbers) with 3 flamers or 3 meltas – can do the same as above

Arguably platoon HQs tooled with flamers or meltas can do this too but this is rather a waste of the points spent on an officer

Sentinels – the most common option being the heavy flamer which can kill troops effectively, but equally all other options can get access to the rear armour of vehicles

But I see myself as Gene Hackman in a beret with a dodgy Polish accent
Ok so if you genuinely want to play a drop troop army and drop everything onto the table, then.. your forces are going to arrive piecemeal and off target, you can not out fight your opponent and you have hampered your shooting, all you have is guts and the bare faced refusal to look facts in the face! Me, I am in! This isn’t an army for the inexperienced or faint hearted; it needs to be played cunningly and innovatively. You need to hit hard and then hold on for dear life

Classically my drop troops, when the Elysian rules are banned, takes the iron discipline doctrine. All squads have voxs and the Command HQ has a master vox. All squads take vet sgts. The HQs provide fire support from as many special weapons as I can get into them, but I do tend to include a medic, roughly the army can be broken down into 3 areas: 2 assault elements and odds and sods. The 2 assault elements are essentially the infantry platoons and their command squads. Each infantry squad has a special weapon and a missile launcher (the only viable heavy weapon mini for the Elysians). In addition to this are the odds and sods, these include special weapons squads (flamers and meltas with demo charge), the HQ command squad, with loads of special weaponry, a sentinel with an Autocannon and improved comms, 2 sentinels with las cannons and HK missiles, veterans and storm troopers.

Assault Elements:
Identify 1 target per platoon (in my case 2 targets), ideally these are objectives guarded by strong squads. Deep strike platoons around the target, usually the whole platoon around a single objective, and rapid fire into the defenders, what is left will generally charge you, charge it right back, with as much as possible, the only proviso on this is if other units are in the area, you may need to dose these up with fire. Gradually get your units into firing positions on the objective.

Odds and Sods
These have a number of roles, firstly they can reinforce the assault elements, if you feel the entire platoon can not handle the current defenders then support them with an odds and sods unit.
Secondly these units can take out enemy squads threatening your assault units, particularly good for this are the special weapons squads with demo charges, although rolling the scatter dice twice makes you very prone to missing.
Several of these units can be used to take out enemy tanks and fire support, deep striking deep into the enemies deployment zone and chewing up his rear, this can be a suicide mission, but if so will distract your opponent from taking on your assault elements and recapturing the objectives.
These are to all intents and purposes, a tactical reserve to squander or hoard at your peril, generally if they have killed more points than they cost, then they have done their job.

Usually by turn 5 the majority of your army has arrived, most of the odds and sods have been killed or are routing off the board and what is left of your assault elements are hiding in cover around objectives and trying to tough it out. Arnhem all over again, unfortunately 30 Corps is not ever going to arrive, but hey, you have the advantage of the game ending around turn so you just need to tough it out until then

Cityfight
Drop troop armies are a mixed blessing in a cityfight, but can be extremely effective, their lack of vehicles, high numbers, mobile fire power all contributes to make them pretty effective, but don’t deep strike them if at all possible, watching as you entire platoon disappears thanks to the scatter dice gods is not a pleasant feeling.

Most importantly – have fun, enjoy the flamboyance and daring of the army, revel in the fact that your drop knocked your opponents plans into a cocked hat and by the time he had recovered, the game was over. Personally I always enjoy sitting through the deployment phase with my arms crossed looking smug and watching my opponent get anxious on turn 2 when I pick up the dice for the reserve rolls
 
#3 ·
Wow, that is so much more info than I expected... Thanks so much. Using your advice, I put together a for review, if you have a second to check it out.

Rep to you, for sure.
 
#4 ·
Wow that was a really good tactica for deepstriking guard. I play witch Hunters but damn that post makes me want to run out and buy an IG deepstrike army. Hey if I induct a bunch of IG can they take doctrines?
 
#6 ·
Nope, afaid you can't. Inducted IG can't use doctrines, but an IG army with WH elements can have doctrines.

Ever wonder what would happen if you attach a Commissar to an Inquisitor retinue? We all know what happens if the Inquisitor gets a Perils of the Warp, eh?
 
#7 ·
I think the cost has driven me away from Elysians... I'm putting together a list for Karakoni Warhawks for a bit of variance (see IG lists for more info).

Thanks so much for all of your help.
 
#8 ·
Dont give up, even though it might be costly to colect an elysian army, but there is always other armies similar to them. You could start a drop troop force, which is very similar to elysians. Or you could start an airborne grenadier regiment or things of that sort with your own doctrines to suit your strategy. Elysians are good but they arent the end of the world, there are many ways to get around their price.
 
#10 ·
The tactica applies to standard codex IG with deep strike more than Elysian really.

In terms of a deep strike army, the main assault comes from your platoons, these arrive en mass and really are the opnly things large enough to hold groud. Odds and sods are everything else, specifically:

Command HQ,
Special weapons squads
Heavy weapons squads/platoons (if you must)
sentinals (personnaly I like using for anti tank so las cannon and HKs, although catchan pattern is attractive, I worry that the scatter dice will elave them out of range)
storm troopers
Veterans
Vultures
Aircraft (marauders, lightenings, thunderbolts)
even tarantulas

most other stuff just doesnt work in an entirely drop troop army

I would say again though:
Valkyries - these are fluffy as hell and a down right liability, if you want a fluffy army and you got the pennies, then take them, if you want to win, dont
 
#11 ·
Its actually very convenient, since you can include aircraft in any drop troop army without haveing to take any kind of doctrine, beacuse aircraft does give quite a huge advangate is you know how to use it right and not let it get shot down the 1st turn. The only problem is throwing away over $100 just on one single model depending on what you buy. Vulture is anywhere from $100 to $140, valkyries are about $120 to $160. Also, flier models are a bit more difficult to make, since its diffirent plastic and usually you need to be an experienced modeler to make it turn out good. You cant really compare a valkyrie to a leman russ in the time it takes to built one as well as the level of difficulty. Anyway, there is plenty of ways one can collect a drop troop army, elysians is only one of them.
 
#13 ·
Well depends, I mean strictly drop troop armies include troops, fliers, sentinels and gun emplacements (if allowed). It totally depends on your strategy, whats good about fliers is you can move them where ever you want. You can just hover on the table edge and just launch missile after missile while your opponent can do nothing to shoot it down(12" above the board), on the other hand bombing runs are risky since bombs are usually G48" so its a little hard to hit exactly what you want. On the other hand, you can remain 48" away from an enemy shooter while he need a 60" gun to hit you, and no ordnance barrages vs fliers. Unless there are AA enplacemnts on the field, the fliers can wreak some serious havoc among the enemy lines.

Vulture is usually a good hvy choice, and its points cheap as well. The good thing about fliers is there isnt a whole lot of upgrades so you can get more of them as long as you have the money.

Valkyrie is probably the best transport, a simple flying chimera with lots of guns at a higher price. 2 door mounted HBs with turret lascannon, and 2 choices of under wing weapons or fuel tanks in which case it can drop a sentinel and a gun emplacement.

I was never a big fan of super heavy fighters, they are huge, fragile and can be seen and hit from any point on the battlefield. Plus they are expensive, thunderhawk gunship is over $700 bucks so ... good luck earning all that money.

Generally, in my opinion you should have some mean of transportation for ANY drop troop army. Valkyrie is a tool for that, for heavy support, vuulture is a usefull tool but most drop troop armies relly on heavy weapon platoons, its cheaper and probably more effective. Sentinels are quite nice for drop troop armies, fast and hard hitting especially with hunter killer missiles. (A fer days ago my dream tank-hunter sentinel configuration went up in smoke, I thought hardened fighter sentinels can shoot twice)

So there, I think you will have tons of fun with airborne regiment, but before you collect anything I suggest coming up with a strategy (I have had a hard time winning lately with mine)
 
#14 ·
Gah, ok maybe I didnt make it clear:

Valkyries are naff, engaging VTOL is a surefire way to get killed (light skimmer armour and stationary? byeeee). Unless you have flier rules from IA3 then you have to do this to drop off troops, IA3 will let you use the orbital lander rules but you are still wasting your first turn with the aircraft. since it aint gonna be on till at least turn 2 most games, this means it will be turn 3 at the very earliest before it shoots, its has half the hard points of a vulture, and you could have deep strike that unit any way, so valks are naff, exclent for fluff but vastly over priced and ineffective

Vultures make nice fire support, but you need to decide on purpose for the weapons fit, for anti tank, take 2 las cannons and Hellstrikes or HKs, anti infantry options look like roket pods, heavy bombs and auto cannons, however, I use a vulture cos it is fluffy for elysians, to be truely effective take aircraft

Both lightening and thunderbolts are very effective, the thunderbolt being more so, although costing more. Again you need to decide on role for weapon fit

Marauders? never tried super heavy fliers, look to be good anti hoard
 
#15 ·
Valkyries are naff, engaging VTOL is a surefire way to get killed (light skimmer armour and stationary? byeeee). Unless you have flier rules from IA3 then you have to do this to drop off troops, IA3 will let you use the orbital lander rules but you are still wasting your first turn with the aircraft. since it aint gonna be on till at least turn 2 most games, this means it will be turn 3 at the very earliest before it shoots, its has half the hard points of a vulture, and you could have deep strike that unit any way, so valks are naff, exclent for fluff but vastly over priced and ineffective
A flier can engage VTOL where ever it wants so no it doesnt mean death, it counts as being 12' above the ground and with HK missiles with unlimited range they can stay on the board edge 60" away from the nearest enemy unit and just keep pounding them and there wont be anything they will be able to do about it. Most long rang weapons in most armies are 48" range(Heavy) so if you hover at that distance you will be fine. Races line Necrons and tyranids dont have weapons of the needed range to shoot down fliers from far away.

Fliers are optional, their main purpose is not to win you the game but to make it more fun cause with fliers, its usually harder to win especially if you relly on them a lot, like elysians for example.
 
#19 ·
Do you mean elysians or simply a drop troop IG army? Elysians have specific rules about them, on the other hand standard drop troop IG can be customized which ever way you want, yet you might want to follow some basic guidelines to keep you army ... well ... drop troop, meaning no demolishers, russes and etc.
 
#21 ·
I wish I would but I dont, if you can get your hands on one of the books then maybe you could get some info about that. I dont suggest buying one unless you have the money because there is a lot of them, and they are expensive. If you go to your local GW, I am sure one of the employees there will have a book you can look through, so you can do that and decide if thats what you really want or not. Wish I could be of more help...
 
#24 ·
Anti mate, answers:

IA1 contains (rules for armoured battlegroups and loads of tanks allowing more armour than an armoured company, as well as artillery and AA emplacements)
Rules for tarantula - these are rather nerfed for any army but a drop troop one because of the targetting rules)
Rules for Aircraft (Vulture, Valkyrie, Maruader super heavy bomber and a varriant, Thunderbolt, lightening, rukles for how to use them

IA2 we can ifgnore as it is for =][= and SMs

IA3 contains the army list for an Elysian (23rd) regiment, as well as detail for the Taros campaign and stuff on Tau, it includes rules for taratula (ommiting the targetting rules), Advanced flier rules and rules for Vultures and valkyries

IA4 (dont have) contains at least orbat if not list for unit 99 - elysian elite detachment - pretty much veterans become troops, which wounds nice but you lack the impact of the assault element

So you can play standard codex IG drop troop doctrine

You can also do this plus use IA1 rules for fliers

You can use IA3 to produce an Elysian regiment

Elysian is far fluffier and more suited to drop troops, some twists make it good, like demo charges in your troop squads, but equally you lose heavy weapons in the troop squads, try playing battles where you can not deep strike, it becomes horriffic

any other Qs?
 
#26 ·
For elysians, although heavy weapons platoons exist, they dont use the heavier weapons (las cannons, auto cannons) and the plattoons are - according to the fluff, always broken up and interspersed in the companies, hence the option of attaching HW squads to company HQs but not HW platoon is in the army list, clearly though other drop infantry could be different
 
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