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I've played the same necron general 3 times now. On the first occasion I phased him out in turn 5. He's lately re-tooled his list to something like this:
Destroyer lord w/phylactery
Lord with Veil of Darkness and res-orb
4 squads of 11 warriors
2 squads of 4-5 destroyers.
MoS w/ jump pack
2 assault squads with Vet SGT-PF & BP
tac 1 - 7 marines, 1HB 1PG
tac 2 - 10 marines 1 vet SGT - PF & BP, 1 meltagunner
tac 3 - 7 marines, 1 PC 1 PG
tac 4 - 5 marines, 1 LC 1 PG
Dev - 8 marines, 4 ML
termies w/ 2 AC.
Now, I don't know what the problem is, but I cannot beat this guy. In both of the last two games I've played against him, I've ended up basically wiped out.
I cannot tell if it's that the necron warriors are insanely under priced at 3pts more than a marine, and are basically marines that get up again once you kill them...
OR if he's power listing to beat MEQs (I won't play a list that's designed to beat a single opponent) and there's no real hope for my list against his...
OR I'm just lacking in the tactics to beat his necrons.
Generally, I use tacs 1,3, 4 and the devs for fire support and use the assault squads and tac 2 to march upfield and meet the enemy. However, with the crazy fast destroyers with the A2 gauss, I am NOT moving nearly as fast, since he can ignore terrain.
He also uses his lord with the VoD and the immortals as a sniper squad. Basically transporting them into my lines, and blasting the bejesus out of a squad, taking whatever shots I can give him, getting back up and then vanishing again on his turn.
For the VoD to cost only 4 marines worth of points seems a bit low to me, considering it costs me 10 points more than that to equip a single 10 man assault squad with jump packs (vs the cost of a regular marine) and I can't just magically appear anywhere I like on the board.
SO TELL ME... is it a case of:
a) I just suck and need help beating these metal bonies - if so, I'd love the help.
b) his list it tweaked for power gaming and there's no real hope unless I build a list designed specifically to kill him?
c) necrons are too cheap, point-wise?
thanks in advance for any advise that you might have.
Baby, when I'm the voice of reason, we've got problems!~artificerSomeone should stop
Jervis "let's make it easy enough for a 3 year old to play" Johnson
before he turns 40k into checkers~anon
The guys got a really balanced list. The destroyers are really good fire support. The weakness in his list is that if you can get into CC you should be able to walk through him. The initiative comparison between Necrons and SM means that SM's should walk thr0ugh a squad of warriros. On top of that, the CC will block LoS for anything behind it and deny him targets by your squads being in CC.
As for your list I'd beef up on models by dropping the heavy weapons (or change them to melta-guns) and charge across the field and meet him head on. If he VoD's you end up scattering his warriors (or immortals) around the board and it'll be harder for him to concentrate fire on a specific squad.
In summary, no I don't think he's powerlisting. However, your best chance is to get in CC so you have to hug cover till you can jump him.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
Well, i'm a necron player an I would say his list is pretty much a power gamers list. Its powerful, but it lacks fast melee and you shoul concentrate your fire on the lords, if you can knock out the orbs that reduces the surivivabily by a HUGE ammount.
I see you problems.
Do you have access to other models? If so,
Take away all your terminators.
Take away heavy bolters, meltaguns.
I suggest a dreadnought or cut down your squads into nice solid numbers of 8 man each with heavy weapons. Plasma gun is a bit nice, cuts through armor, but if you need to free points, cut them out. You ahve those 4 missile launchers, keep them safe and hunt those destroyers down. Pack more long range weapons, stay together , and get your assault units in cover and wait to jump out.
You have the right power for melee but you need to do this:
Deploy as far back as you can, stay as a whole group together, so if he VoDs you are in efficient range to blast everything you have at him. His warriors are scary to look at in number, but trust me on this. IGNORE THEM ALL. There is a reason for this,
Necrons lack speed, range, and heavy weaponry. Only one thing really that possesses that ability is his destroyers. Kill them all.
Kill his destroyers first -> Solution = nail him long range.
I suggest getting a dreadnought or two, hide them behind a corner, then once the destroyers come out, walk them out then fire all at one squad. Then have all your other heavy weapons shoot at one destroyer squad at a time, essentially killing the destroyers.
Now you nailed his long range weapons, let him march up to you. get your assault marines inside cover or somewhere, where you can just jump out and strike, but keep your army close and standing so when he moves to you, you get the 24'' stationary shot at him while he doesnt. He only has his slow troops left. Once he gets within your assault range, make your assault marines come out and start whacking the warriors. then while all is in combat march your marines forward and try to get into combat.
You get the idea now? You have to dissect the enemy by its pieces, ripping out its hands and legs, crippling him, the parts that make it kill. You then you tear the body up.
Plasma Cannosn Bro. Get rid of the HB when fighting Power armor save enemies.
I fight Necrons I use 4-6 plasma Cannons and normally casue a round 3-4 Phase out when combined witha ssault marines.
Trust me bro, Plasma Cannons will do it for you.
"Give me reason ot suspect you are a Heretic, and I will come down upon you with the Wrath of Rogal Dorn."
-Inquisitor Vaghn Orshead
Space Wolves of BulvaiDaemondeth-
W:1 L:1 T: 3
Favored Enemy: Orks and Space Marine
Black Knights Chapter: (DIY S.M.)
W: 17 L: 11 T: 5
Favored Enemy: Orks
First, you're not gonna need those missle launchers. Frankly, they're a waste of points you sorely need. The terminators are a waste of points too.
He has alot of warriors, so you're gonna need 2 Whirlwinds, one with mines, and the other with your standard Ordnance blasts. (Make a couple ordnance templates by the way). Set them up at the opposite ends of your deployment zones.
Your Mines Whirlwind is only going to be firing on it's side of the board. Set mines up in a line about six inches away from whatever's coming towards it. (I know this is a little confusing by the way I'm writing, so I hope everyone understands).
All your Ordnance Whirldwind is gonna do is try and pick off Warriors so your Assault squad can get in quick and dirty and mop up whatever the Whirldwind missed.
The Tactical squads are going to move up to back everything else. Don't think they're useless. A tactical squad can do more damage than you think, especially when the Warriors are stunted by the Mines.
Dont take vehicles.. at all! NO transports or Landraiders or otherwise, for reasons obvious. The only exceptions are the Whirlwinds, which make use of cover and such.
Hope I helped
Keys to beating necrons:
Kill squads completly: remember he cant raise his models if hes not withen er.. 6 or 12 inches of the another model - cant remember which, most likely, if you can entirely eliminate a squad, he will have a tough time getting them to pop back up.
(sure thats not easy to do with an 11 man squad of MEQs, but its not imposible either)
Avoid res orbs: Now a resorb and resurect models withen 12 inches of it, so kill models with your 8s 3AP guns that arent near the orb. If hes using his veil, exploict this by target units he ported away from.
assault: Your better then necrons in assault, use this to your advantage.
Now, your army.Make sure you have termintor honours, a bolt pistol, frags, and nothing else(except the jump pack)MoS w/ jump packWith this many assault marines, you should almost play blood angles. Add plasma guns, 4 of them. Sure, he can res against these, but youll kill a few models during CC, thus helping you beat him faster.2 assault squads with Vet SGT-PF & BPI suggest you make all these squads 6 man. I would revaluate the HB - against any opponent.tac 1 - 7 marines, 1HB 1PG
tac 3 - 7 marines, 1 PC 1 PG
tac 4 - 5 marines, 1 LC 1 PGThese are two slow - because the rest of your army is moving much faster - your two assault squads will leave these guys behind.tac 2 - 10 marines 1 vet SGT - PF & BP, 1 meltagunner
There is little you can do to improve them, all of them would require massive restructings of your list, or bad tactics. However as they are, they arent worth the points.
To improve them, id give them infiltrate or a drop pod.
Note, you should drop pod no less then 4 units at a time, hence the massive rescruturing part. However, you have 2 assault squads, this can make up for the lack of other drop podders.
Infiltrate, of course makes this squad stand out, thats bad, without more squads infiltrating, they will be taking more hits then normal.
Without a lot of revamp, this squad will never do well. Sadly, its one of the best squads when used to maxium effect, like in a drop pod/infiltrating list.Solid.Dev - 8 marines, 4 MLNot a good choice, to many points, two slow to make it into CC, ACs are nice, even against necros, but necrons can down them in return two easly.termies w/ 2 AC.
Sadly, a massive restructing of your list seems the easiest way to overcome your opponet.
Most tactics that beat marines, beat necrons, so if you specialise towards beating necrons - your gonna also be good against marines, since 80% of people play space marines, youll have a fairly balanced list.
Well, I find that eliminating their only units that server a single function,
I.E. Destroyer = Mobility, range and firepower.
Seeing that the advantages cover up what necrons lack in, and they come in such a small unit, you can easily kill them. Their gun is only 36'' and does not cut through your armor.
All i see is
44 warrior mass, 2 lords, 10 immortals
Yes I seperated them. Foot vs flying.
Scenario 1: He brings the destroyers up in front of his army, this means they are vurnable to instant kill (though you do not have those type weapons) but you can gun him down heavily. Try to take the whole squad at once so they cannot come back up.
Knowing that assault will obliterate them, you basically cut off the legs of the necron army. Only thing you have to fear is VoD, but do you have to fear that when your whole army functions as one and sticks as a team? I doubt he will VoD in the open to just try to take a shot at one thing in your army, and you return back with full force. But if he does, then you get the free points, from there is easy win. If he doesnt VoD, you are just playing against his foot troops then right? They are slow moving and have low range. This gives you enough time to get some pot shots inside, aim all weapons to one squad.
Then get your assaults hiding = victory
Scenario 2: He holds his destroyers back in the army.
Still do the same thing, just try to gun those destroyers down. Then if you are having trouble just take the potshots at his warriors. Then just wait till you can assault him, otherwise just pound him with shots.
I hope that makes sense.
He should be able to take the list fairly easily with the marine list he posted in the OP.
Level the destroyers one squad at a time with the tac marines and get the assault marines + MoS into CC with the warriors.
Use the dev squad to pump krak missiles into anything that moves from beyond his max range. They're double T for the warriors, and can easily pop his lord if he foolishly leaves it out in the open (wounds on 2's with no armor save). Also, if you add their firepower to that of a single tac squad you can easily take a warrior squad down to half strength a turn. At the least you can force leadership tests. Just remember to ignore the frag missiles. They won't get the job done. Treat the warriors and immortals like vehicles with the MLs and you'll do good.
He just has to remember to get both squads of assault marines and the chapie into CC with the same unit of warriors and make sure he doesn't wipe the squad untill the necron turn. The warriors won't be able to survive the assault with only 11 per squad if their outnumbered 2:1.
Also, DS the termies. Either teleport them in or try to add a drop pod. It's a bit of a gamble but if you can land them into his back field they should draw all his fire for a good turn or two. If some of them survive to make it into melee all's the better.
Last edited by Arandmoor; October 2nd, 2006 at 05:05.
Wake. Rise. Destroy. Conquer.
We have done so once. We will do so again.
I play DA's and have LOADS of heavy weapons, which spells death for the Necron's player I have to fight.
First I always focus first on destroyers and heavy destroyers, they have the most range for a necron gun, so they should be the first focus of your ire. Also remember that if a squad is completely wiped out without being near a tomb spider they can't get a we'll be back roll. So you have to focus your fire on them first.
Once that is done focus on the guys on foot. Also remember, go for killing complete squads before moving onto something else, there are no TS's in the list you showed, so there is no way for him to save a destroyed squad.
Once you have to deal with the lord, remember to fight him with vet sergeants and a powerfist. NOT your IC, warscythe destroys IC's because they don't allow saves, but your vet sergeants can attack back without worry of getting killed if you swarm the lord properly.
Remember, that they are a very slow army and very short ranged. Keeping that in mind, there isn't much reason for you to go to them. Instead you should deploy behind the 12" (Maybe at 6 to 8") and wait for the necrons to get too close (18") and then assault back into his regular troop choices.
You assault squads should have plasma pistols it gives them more versatility to attack higher strength monsters before the charge.
In response to Arandmoor:
The only time you should be using frag missiles is if your opponent has foolishly bunched up his squads (in a way that gives you 2 and 2 partials or better). If this has happened, well, there are more things wrong in the game than your use of frag missiles. Essentially you are banking that he will fail some saves assuming you get 3 hits, you get 6 wounds probably 2 or 3 more from partials. So 9 wounds, he might fail 3-4. However, its about odds. 9 out of 10 times I would go for KRAK missiles over FRAG. But, if the situation is highly favorable then I switch to frags. Then again I have 8 missile launchers and I use them on weaker enemies, like genestealers who have grouped in unfortunate ways.
Last edited by Remiyo; October 2nd, 2006 at 05:17.