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In my daemonhunters army i'm thinking of using 6 squads of gk.
They go like this:
2 Grey Knights
2 Grey Knights with Psycannons
I would be grateful for any feedback (good or bad) and would like your thoughts on how well this would do during a game as the points cost rises considerably fast especially at 200 points per squad!
Firstly, what points value are you aiming at here? Are you taking anything else?
IMO, GK squads this small are simply innefective. What purpose did you have in mind for them?
If its simply the psycannons your after than you be better suited taking a purgation squad. But taking psycannons means the GK lose their NFW and their stormbolters which IMO are the best base weapon available.
This means that they are forfeiting 2 stormbolter shots each and 2 str 6 close combat attacks for a psycannon, not to mention that psycannons are almost the cost of another GK.
1 GK with psycannon =
3 str 6 ranged attacks + 1 str 4 close combat attack (you also forfeit true-grit)
2 Gk vanilla =
4 str 4 ranged attacks + 4 str 6 close combat attacks
This makes vanilla GK much more versatile and effective.
You should simply take 2-3 full units of 10 vanilla GK for the same points value,
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This would be in game of 1500+ . Usually around 2000. But thinking on what you said you do give up alot of adaptability for the psycannons!
So what are your thoughts on using incinerators as although ive found them very useful (especially against dark eldar) they are very restrictive in what they can do.
You should almost never give your GKs special weapons. You are increasing the cost of the GK model to make him less effective in combat. Essentially, what you do is convert your GK into a single, very expensive generic space marine model (S4/A1) with a decent weapon, when you could instead have as many as two Grey Knights (S6/True Grit) for the same points. The tradeoff is almost never worth it, whether you are talking about psycannons or incinerators.
Rule of Thumb: Keep your GKs vanilla. You want to assault with them, so don't hamstring them with expensive, debilitating upgrades.
Regarding psycannons specifically, the 5-man 2x psycannon squad can be OK, but it isn't an assault squad. It's a static fire support squad that should be sitting in cover and taking advantage of The Shrouding. I say "static" because those 5 models are expensive, so you don't want to risk losing those psycannons, and if you move the squad the range drops to less than a storm bolter (and risk losing the advantages that cover and Shrouding should be providing). Personally, I think a shooty inquisitor set up is a much better investment. You will spend less points and get much more firepower out of him. This "mini-purgation" GK squad should be taken only if you are a little insane and are going pure GK. An actual purgation squad can be worth it, but you should do that only if you're going to max out on psycannons. This is another order of magnitude in expense, though, and for a mostly pure DH list facing all-comers, this is also not something that you can usually afford to do. Against horde armies, though, it's rather amazing.
Regarding incinerators specifically, the big problem is getting the opportunity to make the investment in the weapon worthwhile. If you're footslogging your troops, the odds are not good that your hobbled GK will earn its points back with the incinerator. And really, the same holds true for deep striking GKs, too. Not likely that you'll land with enough accuracy to get that template placed with any efficiency. And since you can't assault the turn you land, a GK squad that gets assaulted before it can means you just lost the opportunity to use the weapon at all, and then what do you have? (Answer: A wimpy vanilla space marine. Yick.) Other than as an upgrade on dreadnoughts, the only place incinerators belong in your DH army is on PAGKs being transported around in a Land Raider Crusader. Taking 1 or 2 in such a squad does have a good shot at picking and choosing the time and placement of the incinerator template(s). (Use of the uber-expensive LRC is a topic for another discussion entirely. Let's just say that I don't think that, awesome as the tank is, you should be taking it hardly ever. Certainly not in games under 1700-2000 pts.)
And finally, you need to keep your GK squads at 8 models or more. GKs attract a lot of fire, and they must weather that and still have enough models left over to assault and win. Small squads not only stand the chance of losing the assault, but when they do they will take automatic wounds because of being Fearless (that's the ugly downside of that wonderful ability). Furthermore, small squads can easily be taken down below scoring unit status, and then you won't be able to use them to contest objectives or table quarters.
Last edited by number6; October 18th, 2006 at 13:07.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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That wouldn't be pure cheapness at all, It would infact be more like an over priced six devastator list. If I were playing loyalist marines with infiltrating devastators I could have six squads with 2 heavy bolters in them and three spare marines for much less (95 points less). I know a heavy bolter isn't quite as good as a psycannon, but I could have two heavy bolters per psycannon, and still have a lower point totaland the same number of removal wounds.
The thing to remember is that psycannons are great in thereoy, but in practice should only be used on terminators, and lone inquisitors, PAGKs pay too much for them to change the from an ultimate assault unit to a pretty poor shooting one.
You've helped me decide and I will go with vanilla squads of grey knights.
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