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I am tired of people calling flamers ineffective. If you use them right, they can be nasty. Dismounting several flamers from a transport can be great. Putting a heavy flamer on a Chimera and sticking a squad with flamers in it works as a great ambush tactic, especially against nids. Hide behind terrain until they are about to charge (basically for a single turn), and then jump out. But my favorite use of them is to stick 3 flamers in a command squad. Put it in the second row of your formation. This works well against all assault armies, but it is obviously best against nids. When it is your turn and you know they will charge you next turn, step your first line of guardsmen forward and space them so they cannot be passed by. They will be assaulted, of course. When they are wiped out, the enemy will consolodate right in front of your entire army, including flamers. Just judge it right, and you can't go wrong. Now, I will wait for people to disagree with me.
"When one man dies it is a tragedy. When thousands die its a statistic."
Massed flamers is equally effective againt MEQs.
You get so many automatic hits, it's only a matter of time before they fail their saves.
I learnt the hardway as my witch hunter friend burned my marines away time and time again.
Flamers are indeed great.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
Well, you wont exactly be shooting 50 advancing gaunts with a plasma gun will you? Flamers are good against units thats the are dedicated to be used against. Large numbers of weakly armored, tightly packed creatures. In city fight, flamers are probably some of the best weapons because you get to attack units moving through a maze which are usually in base to base contact, as well as ignore any kind of cover save meaning bye bye harlequins, grenade launcher is distant secondary.
Against MEQs, flamers is probably a secondary weapon as you would be better of using melta or plasma weapons against them, thats ruling out autocannons and heavy bolters. Flamer's killing power is at its peak against units with saves 4+ and up, units with 3+ saves are better protected and even though they still have a 30% chance failing, I would suggest using Ap3 weapons vs them. Again this is questionable, as in cases when 10 marines can all be covered by a single template, you would be very foolish not to torch them with a flamer.
As for 2+ savers, no flamers. Units with 2+ save are usually larger then standard troops, like termies and carnifexes and etc and thus require the use of special/heavy weapons to counter them with. Models like this are too big to be covered under template even if they are in BtB
So when should one use flamers?
Against T4 models with 4+ save and worse. yes.
Against MEQs in open terrain in loose formation, probably not
Against MEQs in BtB moving Btw buildings in city fight, yes
Against 2+ save T4 and above, no, make that HELL NO
So there, justa suggestion
I have a love of flamers too. i find that normal flamers only get used once so even though they are effective they dont compare to a weapon i use several times. heavy flamers on the other hand are soooo good. i never leave home without my heavy flamer sentinels all of my armies have 2 in. i mostly play aaist grenadiers so a couple of well timed shots can wipe out half their infantry!
i want to try normal infantry with flamers and sniper rifles (light inf obs) as the sniper rifle is only 5 pts. this would be good to infiltrate forward and perhaps get the flamers working. a sort of flame pin the rest to flame again thing. needs playtesting but should be fun.
I also worked out statistics for the weapons and as long as you can hit 3 or more men its the best weapon for its price. if you can hit i think 5(?) or more then it is officially better at killing marines than plasma and you dont die!
I love Flamers too believe it or not, just not on guardsmen. I love them elsewhere but on guardsmen I've never found them efficient. Seraphim? Heck yes! I love hand flamers, divine guidance with hand flamers is even better.I am tired of people calling flamers ineffective. If you use them right, they can be nasty.Unfortunately that is a one trick pony, and if your playing against experienced opponents you'll find that they'll check what's in your transports. Even if they don't check, don't expect them to fall for it the second time. That transport will go kapoof! before the little nids reach their destination.Dismounting several flamers from a transport can be great. Putting a heavy flamer on a Chimera and sticking a squad with flamers in it works as a great ambush tactic, especially against nids. Hide behind terrain until they are about to charge (basically for a single turn), and then jump out.
If you choose to hide the Chimera rather than rushing, you do run into a couple of drawbacks
1) It takes up space that could be used to hide bigger and deadlier tanks such as the Russes or Basilisks.
2) To rush out you need to keep several Chimera lanes open so it can move about. I find this extremely hard to do because of the way I space my men out, not so sure about yourself though.
3) While the Chimera is hidden, it ain't shooting you could rather tear up that unit of Nids before it reaches you rather than waiting for them to slaughter a squad. A Chimera that puts out 9 shots a turn is a thorn in any enemy's side. If you choose to put a Heavy Flamer on it, it can't use it the turn it unleashes its cargo as the Chimera will be facing the wrong way. That and it lessens the usefulness of the chimera against a more static foe (Unless it is supported by other chimeras, one chimera rushing on its own won't make it far however)Meh, I've tried counter attacking with flamers, I haven't found it efficient. The biggest problem was that my enemies tended to out manouvre my guardsmen as the Command Squad is required to hide behind a large, obstructing piece of terrain. Keep in mind it's not enough for a the burning squad o' doom to be in range, to be effective they need to be really up close and personal.But my favorite use of them is to stick 3 flamers in a command squad. Put it in the second row of your formation. This works well against all assault armies, but it is obviously best against nids. When it is your turn and you know they will charge you next turn, step your first line of guardsmen forward and space them so they cannot be passed by. They will be assaulted, of course. When they are wiped out, the enemy will consolodate right in front of your entire army, including flamers. Just judge it right, and you can't go wrong. Now, I will wait for people to disagree with me.
Of course, the other problem may be due to my style of play. I like to space my men out as much as possible which leads to a large front for the enemy to attack, thus limiting the amount of damage a Flamer can do.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
As for the standing flamers behind other squads, I find that you may not have time to move them effectively, and may or may not get to shoot them until you get assaulted.
Overall though, I love flamers in an IG army.
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