Heavy/Special weapon loadouts - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member Killer Clown's Avatar
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    Heavy/Special weapon loadouts

    I was just wondering if any of you experienced DH guys could give me the rundown on a few questions I have:
    1) What special and heavy weapons do you give your IG squads? I am specifically thinking Armoured Fists here. (I am using the Kasrkin models)
    2) What roles do you swap them in and out for ie which battlefield role does each fulfill best. (I know some are obvious, but I haven't gamed in a LONG time, so consider me a noob in the current edition)
    3) What are your thoughts on filling the two special weapons slots in a PAGK squad. (I can field two squads of ten vanilla and have 2 Psi-cannons, 1 Incin., in the wings if necessary).
    I know the general consensus seems to be, straight ten men squads of vanilla PAGK, but under what conditions do you guys change out a couple for bigger guns, and which of the two guns??
    4) Also :rolleyes: what weapon loadouts for the above would you take Vs. Specific foes - I don't expect a list for every army, though that would be cool

    I realise some of these questions will overlap, so answer what you like.
    Any help from some experienced battlefield commanders is appreciated.

    Last edited by Killer Clown; October 28th, 2006 at 09:00. Reason: Changed 'heavy' weapons to 'special' weapons in point 3
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  3. #2
    Son of LO mEGALOMANIAC's Avatar
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    1) What special and heavy weapons do you give your IG squads? I am specifically thinking Armoured Fists here. (I am using the Kasrkin models)
    For AF squads, I usually go with either a Lascannon/Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher/Plasma Gun, or Autocannon/Plasma Gun, depending on the army I'm facing. For an all-comers list with two AF squads I'll usually go with one of the L/PG combos and one of the ML/PG combos. If you're using Grey Knights and the like, you're covered with anti-infantry, so you don't usually need to take Heavy Bolters or Flamers or things like that in inducted IG.

    In Platoons, I'll usually take one Lascannon/PG and one ML/PG squad for each of the regular squads, and the command unit I'll outfit with four Plasma Guns (heh, always provides entertainment on the tabletop).

    2) What roles do you swap them in and out for ie which battlefield role does each fulfill best. (I know some are obvious, but I haven't gamed in a LONG time, so consider me a noob in the current edition)
    Well, The way I actually use AFs in a DH army are as two units per AF - as in, I disembark the squad somewhere handy, set them up as a firebase, and then use the Chimera separate from them. The Multi-laser & Heavy Bolter on a Chimera (the loadout I always use) is better at taking out infantry, while the squads themselves are geared (using the above weapon choices) more towards taking out vehicles, heavy infantry, and monsterous creatures.

    3) What are your thoughts on filling the two heavy weapons slots in a PAGK squad. (I can field two squads of ten vanilla and have 2 Psi-cannons, 1 Incin., in the wings if necessary).
    I know the general consensus seems to be, straight ten men squads of vanilla PAGK, but under what conditions do you guys change out a couple for bigger guns, and which of the two guns??
    Well real quick, the reason behind the "general consensus": when you take a special weapon (not heavy weapon, GK don't have any of those), you're *paying* to reduce the effectiveness of one of your GK. You lose True Grit and the +2S bonus, all for a weapon that isn't as effective in all situations as the normal GK loadout. On top of that, Stormbolters will have better range (when moving, which your GK should always do) than either special weapons choice.

    But I digress.

    In a PAGK (ie, Troops) squad, if I want any special weapons at all it'll be two Psycannons. The squad itself will be small, probably minimum or so. They'll act the role of a firebase of sorts - because once you move those guys, the expensive Psycannons are wasted. If the table has a lot of terrain, use it - forests or ruins provide a nice cover save for your GK against heavier weapons that might cut their armor saves. Utilize the range of the Psycannon & the Shrouding special rule together - keep them 30"-36" away from the enemy and you can shoot but (on average) not be shot back at.

    Incinerators in Troop squads are generally a waste because of the range. You'll lose bodies when you move those GK across the table, so why not try and get a few more kills in with a longer-ranged Stormbolter? Besides, GK can usually stand up for themselves in melee, and the best use for a flamer-template weapon is a pre-charge kick.

    Now, in a FAGK (Fast Attack) unit, I'd *never* bring a Psycannon. Same reasoning as (way) above, but more extreme: you'd be paying 2x the cost of a normal GK for a GK without *any* special combat ability. In other words, they'd be just a very very expensive Space Marine, not a Grey Knight. And a FAGK squad is designed for assault, in perfect conditions. Keep that +2S bonus and True Grit, it'll do more for you (and let you buy an extra GK in place of the Psycannon, which is *always* more useful).

    In a FAGK squad, you might find a single Incinerator to be useful, depending on what you're fighting. Against horde armies especially - GK need to lower enemy numbers here because of the rules about Fearless models outnumbered in losing combats. Two Incinerators might be a bit much, considering the standard GK's bonuses that you'd be trading in on *two* GK.

    In PAGK and FAGK squads, however, I'd never mix a Psycannon and an Incinerator. They're designed for different roles, and you'll never be using both optimally in the same turn due to the vast range differences. 40K is all about specialization, not versatility.

    Since I'm on the topic: In GK Terminator squads, a single special weapon of *either* kind can be useful. You'll always get the max range on a Psycannon because of them being stable firing platforms, so the biggest disadvantage to the weapon is removed right there. And Incinerators, as I said, are good for a pre-charge kick - and melee is where GKT belong. I usually use small GKT squads (since large ones tend to be 1/4+ of a list), so the pre-charge kick is more handy here than with a squad of ten FAGK. If you take a GM to lead the squad, consider putting a Psycannon on him as he has a phenomenal BS5. With a BC, don't bother with either weapon - being a one wound model, it isn't worth the risk.

    4) Also what weapon loadouts for the above would you take Vs. Specific foes - I don't expect a list for every army, though that would be cool
    Well, mix and match based on what is good versus what.

    Against Marines & other 3+ save armies, for example, use Plasma in the Armored Fist units (and probably Lascannons, to pop tanks and just peg away at Terminators/Destroyers/Etc). Incinerators are generally a waste against these armies, but Psycannons can be useful in ignoring Invuln saves in some cases - like against a CSM army where Daemons might be present.

    Against horde armies like Guard, Nids, and to a degree, Tau, use high rate of fire weapons. For AF squads, Autocannons are very useful here. Missile Launchers for the templates as well. If you're facing one of these armies with lots of vehicles or monsterous creatures, a Lascannon or two isn't a bad idea (but ML's and AC's aren't too shabby against most of those as well). Grenade Launchers or Plasma Guns make the best compliments to all of those AF weapons - flamers are too short-ranged for my liking, as your AF squads shouldn't be in melee range. For GK, Incinerators still stick to the 0-1 FAGK and 0 PAGK rule - range is a killer, and stormbolters are VERY good against low-save models. Psycannons are again useful here, as they can sometimes even pop armor on standard transports.

    A note: you actually CAN outshoot a Tau list. At least you could with the old Tau, haven't played against the new guys yet. You don't have the range, but you can ignore all of their infantry's armors!

    Since I usually run all-comers lists, I'd say that the best loadouts for AF squads are, as I said above, one Lascannon/PG and one Missile Launcher/PG - versatility, but more focused on the anti-tank ability that GK lack. For GK, no matter what, you usually want to use minimal special weapons against ANY foe. FAGK: 0-1 Incinerator, 0 Psycannon. PAGK: 0 or 2 Psycannons, 0 Incinerators. GKT: whatever catches your fancy, although Psycannons tend to be better (if more expensive).

    Hope my rambling helped!

  4. #3
    Member Killer Clown's Avatar
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    Hardly rambling!!

    Megalo, you are the love child of the BGB and the DH codex!

    Vastly informative as always!

    One clarification:
    AF squads are allowed 2 special weapons and one heavy, when you suggest plasma/LC combo's I am assuming you mean 2 plasma guns/ 1 LC?...and so on?

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    Last edited by Killer Clown; October 28th, 2006 at 09:02.
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  5. #4
    Son of LO mEGALOMANIAC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killer Clown View Post
    One clarification:
    AF squads are allowed 2 special weapons and one heavy, when you suggest plasma/LC combo's I am assuming you mean 2 plasma guns/ 1 LC?...and so on?
    My IG codex states that one model in the AF squad may take a special weapon, and that two models may form a single heavy weapons team - giving you one special and one heavy weapon. Maybe you're thinking of Stormtroopers, who may take two specials (but not the heavy), or Hardened Veterans, who may take three specials (and a heavy)?

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to toss another special weapon in there, I just don't see where that's mentioned!

  6. #5
    Member Killer Clown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mEGALOMANIAC View Post
    My IG codex states that one model in the AF squad may take a special weapon, and that two models may form a single heavy weapons team - giving you one special and one heavy weapon. Maybe you're thinking of Stormtroopers, who may take two specials (but not the heavy), or Hardened Veterans, who may take three specials (and a heavy)?

    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to toss another special weapon in there, I just don't see where that's mentioned!
    *Ahem*...so does mine

    Wishful thinking perhaps

    Lucky you pointed this out before I bought more special weapons blisters!
    Coulrophobia - Fear the Clown!

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    Quote Originally Posted by A mod
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