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  1. #1
    Senior Member Legionnaire's Avatar
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    Tournament Questions

    Gday folks, i'm currently in the shameful position of never having played in a tourney, rather restricting myself to friendly matches and painting (and a bit of "Collecting for the hell of it"). My next step forward is going to be a Tournament Army, and thats were i need a bit of help.

    -Tournament Armies? What should it consist of, how many points?
    -Chapter? What chapter should i collect? (preferably a close combat based army, ie: BA)
    -List? What makes a good Tournament army, ie: balancing etc.
    -*Sniff* ~ Do i smell cheese? I'm really after a Cheesy army, so keep that in mind:shifty:

    Cheers
    ~Legionnaire

    Random Note: Im putting my Salamander dream aside to get this Tournament Cheese-Ball up and running

    "In dedicato imperatum ultra articulo mortis"

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  3. #2
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
    Gday folks, i'm currently in the shameful position of never having played in a tourney, rather restricting myself to friendly matches and painting (and a bit of "Collecting for the hell of it"). My next step forward is going to be a Tournament Army, and thats were i need a bit of help.
    No problem
    -Tournament Armies? What should it consist of, how many points?
    Classically tourney start at 1000 points and go up to 2000 in increments of 250 points, (except 1850 seems to occasionally appear) most official GW events operate at 1000 points, I would therefore start there

    Points in a tourney (not the sort of points that add up to make your army, but the ones they add up to see if you win) are generaly allcoated for the fiollowing:
    A winning fights - usually about 60% of the overall points
    B Fluff or background and painting
    C some soft of quiz
    D army selection (classically troops>40%, all other sections <25% of total army points, varriants include downwards modifiers for identicle units for example)
    E sportsmanship

    Generally the ones that win have won all their battles comprehensively, if you have to lose points in other areas to do this, then fine

    -Chapter? What chapter should i collect? (preferably a close combat based army, ie: BA)
    OK tourneys are mostly not friendly and are basicaly about power gaming, marine assault armies are not at their best, I prefer shooty armies for marines in competative play, however, for a tourney ,for my money at the moment, black templars are the best, their ability to use vows to get accross the field quicker will break most shooty armies except the really powerful ones, however, my issue is that other stuff does assault better than marines, and you will get pranged by those armies (nids, DE witch armies, Chaos for example all leap to mind)
    -List? What makes a good Tournament army, ie: balancing etc.
    Forget balancing, tourneys are about winning, blanacing will tend to get you average or low points for battle results, that wont win you a tourney. Nost asasult armies go for one or two uber assault elements and the rest is chaff
    Play the percentages, if the majority of the armies are gonna be MEQ then equip for tha, also be aware of seasonal stuff, for the next couple of months a disproportionately large amount of eldar armies will appear for example
    -*Sniff* ~ Do i smell cheese? I'm really after a Cheesy army, so keep that in mind:shifty:
    I can give you a damn good shooty marine list, but assault? no, I cant give you an unbeatable marine one
    Cheers
    ~Legionnaire

    Random Note: Im putting my Salamander dream aside to get this Tournament Cheese-Ball up and running
    No probs
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  4. #3
    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    Hmm...tournaments in England must be a lot different then here in the US. Since you are in Australia, my advice might be just as wrong. Might want to check with some local people who play.

    My experience is that most tournaments are either 1500 or 1850 points. If it is an official GW tournament your 'soft' scores (scores for army composition, sportsmanship and painting) are just as important as the points you get for completing objectives and winning. The typical winner of a GW tournament is the person that gets the best soft scores without major sacrifices to his wins. So the majority of his games are minor victories, with some draws, and some major victories. If you take a super cheesed up army, your comp and sportsman ship scores will be tanked and it will be difficult to win. In general (and this is a VERY general statement) a well played Eldar Army is going to do the best in a tournament. (this may have changed with the new codex, but I doubt it). So the best army you can play is one that is well painted, well composed (a list that looks like someone not playing that army thinks it should look) and well played.

    If your playing more of a 'game store' tournament, you are less likely to have to deal with the soft scores, so you can power up your army a lot more. This is going to vary greatly I'm sure from one area to the next.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Lord Spanko's Avatar
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    I will start out saying there is is an important "dark side" that goes into tourny scores. This is the friend factor. People give thier friends scores like best painted, best comp and sportsman. It is how you can see people who did not score well amazingly in win/loss do alright in overall score. Since 3rd - 6th place dont really mean anything it is kinda a mute point. I have never seen a winner of a RTT or a store tourny not been the guy who at least did not come close to winning all of his games. Also a great way to fight this is to have an amazingly painted army. I will confess in retrospect I have given sportsmanship and comp points to people who did not deserve them because I was mesmorized by thier army.

    Also in the US you see a ton of marine armies in tournaments. I think that is why eldar do so well, lots of AP 3 and AP 2. Also mobility is key.

    As to what Cheredaine said I tend to disagree. I play BA in my tourney list and have done pretty well. Shooty marines I do not think do as well since they are not nearly as mobile and do not do things like end the game in the opponents deployment zone.

    Finally and most importantly Tourneys are A LOT of FUN. I love the fact that a little more is on the line than in a normal game. I love standing around the weekend before the game profising with the other store Veterans on who will be able to come and whos wife's sister is getting married so we wont have to worry about him. I like getting new guys psyched about the tourney. I love worry about my list on this site the days before even though I know I am going to only alter my list maybe 20 points or so. And I like standing around the hours, weeks, monthes after reliving the exploits of good/bad tournament moves.

    Good Luck Man

    PS remember the mantra "May the Black Rage be Your Guide"
    If you build a man a fire he will be warm for a night. If you set a man on fire he will be warm the rest of his life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheredanine View Post

    I can give you a damn good shooty marine list, but assault? no, I cant give you an unbeatable marine one
    I would be very interested in your shooty list, mind posting it? PM or otherwise.

    I too have never been to a tournament, and have alot of the same questions as Legionnaire.

    How many people generally are in say a GT? Which are held once a year right?

    Are there any mid level tournaments? Not a 6 person GW store tourny, but not a GT either.
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  7. #6
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otsego View Post
    I would be very interested in your shooty list, mind posting it?
    Chappy W termie honours, bolt pistol

    Dread, TLLC EA

    8 man tac squad W flamer, Vet sgt upgrade, power fist
    Frags

    6 man tac squad W plasma cannon (occasionaly gets vet sgt)
    Razor, TLLC, Extra armour

    6 man tac squad W plasma cannon (occasionaly gets vet sgt)
    Razor, TLLC, Extra armour

    LST

    6 man Dev squad W MLs

    That is about it, fire support comes from the second 2 tac squads and dev squad, anti tank comes from the razors and the dread, the cahppy joins the 8 man tac squad and either acts as counter assault or goes hunting and the LST is just plain unbelievable, filling a number of rolls but consistantly being the most feared/hated unit in room

    The army is unbeaten since Eye of Terror, I have options to swap in scouts, a whirlwind and more marines should I wish to do so, have also made the 8 man tac squad veterans at times, but above is the core
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  8. #7
    Tomb King medic_4077's Avatar
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    Every tournament is different. Every organizer will have thier own rules about composition adn scoring weights.
    If it's an official Hall of Heroes tournament, regardless of size then there are rules posted on the GW site for your country. (North America HoH events are officially 1700 points while in the UK they are 1500). However each event is different.
    I've been to a HoH event with only 6 guys at the local mom and pop hobby store's back room in a remote city I was visiting at the time and I've been at some here in town that were 30 guys, held at a hotel convention room. I've played non HoH tournies where painting and composition weren't even part of the score, just Generalship and Sportsmanship.

    The rest of this post really only applies to us here locally because all our tournaments are run by the same group of organizers:

    We only seem to use the HoH scenarios regardless of whether or not it's an HoH Tournament. At least 1/2 the objectives require movment and are worth enough points to turn a lose into a draw or a win and a win into a massacre. So even if you take a shooty army you need to be able to reposition and still fire, and counter assault.

    Even if you go for a cheese army you may have been better off with a balanved list if you don't get it right. The Godzilla nid list that keeps showing up here usually gets wrecked, same with the 2 monolith mega-numbers of destroyers Cron list.

    As someone stated a well painted army that looks like it contains all the units it should (as guessed at by someone who has no knowledge of your army) and has good fluff which ties into thier paint scheme and thier conversions will get you shots at Best Painted, Best Overall and will maybe even influence the Best Sportsman award. Best General is only one possible way to 'win' a tournament.

    Our tournaments always generate the comment 'I can't believe how friendly and fun that was' from out of towners. Not all tourney's are overtly cut throat and rank with the smell of moldy dairy.

    Good Luck btw. There's certainly enough experience here at LO to build you a cheesey list of some description I'm sure. I think Cheredanine's list looks solid but not cheesey, maybe a tad uniform with a duplicate unit of Razorbacks but one decent line of fluff would cancel that impression. Cheesy would be 9 LST's (which may not be as effective as you think).
    War Record Since Sept 2005
    Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
    New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar

  9. #8
    Teh Nekkid Chatter Killswitch's Avatar
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    If you just happen to live in the Greater Memphis area, the GW Bunker here has a 40K Tourney every other month, the next one in February. These are generally 2000 points and the one thats coming up is a Team Tourney. This is you and a partner each using 1000 points, only requirements are you each have 1 HQ and 1 troops. You also share a force org. chart. A normal tourney is the normal force org. chart, and you follow the standard 2troops/1hq. Assault armies seem to dominate here, and probrally other places as well.

    I'm back.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Legionnaire's Avatar
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    omg thank you guys so much for those detailed and helpful responeses, at the moment im logged on via a crappy work laptop, so il take another look when i get home. I'l edit this post as soon as i get a decent look at your posts - cheers!

    ~Legionnaire

    (REP to you guys btw)
    "In dedicato imperatum ultra articulo mortis"

  11. #10
    Ghost of LO ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar's Avatar
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    I disagree with just about every Cheredanine says, as a general rule. Funny how that works, we are polar opposites i guess.

    Cheesy would be 9 LST's (which may not be as effective as you think).
    Which is why people are always so shocked to lose to them

    Any way, what wins tournies, MOBILITY!

    Be mobile and your never out of the fight. You'll notice Cheredanine's list, why I dont see personally like them, always have some elements of mobility.

    Just as im sure the BA player from a few posts back also runs a fairly mobile army.

    So weather your shooting, or assaulting, or both, be mobile. Remember to be respectful and nice, do a decent paint job, and have at least 40% troops.

    Peace
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