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The title simply says it all. What has everyone done to beat the new Eldar Codex so far? What works, and what doesn't?
We've got a very good Eldar player in my group. With the new dex, his wins far outweigh his losses, and of the 3 games I've played against him, I've tied once, lost once, and won once.
I've found so far, two things that are gold against him. Tank hunting heavy bolters, and the psychic hood. Both put the fear of god into him, and he does everything he can to take them out first thing. Understandably so. I bring the HB's in Dev squads of 4. So thats 12 shots that have a chance of knocking anyone of his tanks outta the sky. You figure 6-8 of them hit, chances are you'll get 1-2 glances out of it. They also destroy troops. Heavy Bolters ignore the armor of nearly everything he'll put on the table, and wound on 2's as well.
As for the psychic hood, with the Epistolary, he'll shut down Warlocks very easily, and it's a dice off against the Farseer. If you've played agains them so far, then you know that Doom is no joke, especially when you've got 10 Howling Banshees within a foot of your guys. I've had a 10 man Assault squad get dropped to 3 men before I could even get my attacks in. It's a power you do not want being used, nevermind the fact that he's still got Mind War, Fortune, and Guide to play around with. IMO the Psychic hood with an Epistolary is something you CANNOT afford to leave out of your list when playing against Eldar.
Now, like I said, these things work very well for me, and my opponent knows it as well, thats why their usually his first target. He neutralizes those immediately, then he can take his time with everything else. So has anyone else figured anything else out that can trump the space elves?
Nights Justice Space Marines
Eldar Eth Kariel Craftworld
Spear of Kurnous - High Elf Expeditionary Army
I'm pretty sure the psychic hood doesnt work against warlock powers. as for tank hunting Hb, they really only get 1 glance, so I think you'de be better off playing ML so that you have something to do against a Wraithlord. I would almost certainly put in some LST's since they are just murder on guardians or dire avengers, and give you something to go hunt the weapon batteries with.
Take life seriously, its lethal.
One of the surest ways to beat the eldar is tor limit their premiere advantage: Speed.
You seem to have a pretty good grasp on what works against Eldar. Heavy bolters make the space elves cry. And adding Tank hunters to the mix makes them even more versatile against the Eldar. However, it also adds a big exclamation point to the bulls-eye on them.
Volume of fire, even from bolters is a very viable tactic. Because an eldar player can't fortune everybody, and a lot of that bolter fire will go through the eldar like a hot knife.
I strongly recommend avoiding small, expensive units, and anything with an armor value higher than 12. Bright lances make a mockery of Land raiders and Predators. Also, the amount of Str 6 weaponry makes the possibility of glancing armor 12 pretty likely. Armor tends to fail against Eldar (if they bring bright lances in any significant numbers), and an eldar player who really means it will prevent most o fyour armor saves when possible, and force an ridiculous amoutn of saves that you will likely fail some of them.
Also, do not let the Eldar isolate one unit or the other. If the Eldar are able to systematically dismantle your offense, you will be at a disadvantage. Especially as a space marine player, if you lose the initiative, and play from the back foot, you will have a very hard time reclaiming it without a good deal of luck.
Eldar specialize at engaging the opponent when and where they want to. If you can stop this, you have made a giant leap in dealing with them.
Target priority is a very important thing to consider. You have to decide what needs to be taken out first. Focus fire, and eliminate that threat. Now, this doesn't mean to be oblivious to other potential threats, but given what you have to work with, vs. what you need to eliminate, bring the best options to bear.
* "I'm Significant!" -screamed the dust speck
* "Call me old fashioned, but an evil ascension to power just isn't the same without someone chanting faux Latin in the background."
I would say one of the best things to consider against eldar is playing for the mission. This is true with most any army but particularly eldar. If you gun your guys across the board at them without considering the objective dont be suprised if they simply move out of the way, hide, and claim objectives at the end of the game.
I would say the biggest things to look out for against eldar are dark reapers, vypers w/ bright lances, falcons holding guys, and banshees if he is dumb enough to leave them in the open. Striking scorpions, wraithlords, and troops are good but they can take a hit. You want to eliminate the fragile units first to increase your chances of surviving.
I would say other than the things mentioned the best thing against them is a good counter charge unit. If you can get the banshees out numbered they loose their advantage. Same is true with spears and scorpions
If you build a man a fire he will be warm for a night. If you set a man on fire he will be warm the rest of his life.
I have been finding the new Eldar all kinds of hell
I am a bt Player so no Dev squads or hoods to slow the on slort of doom.
The best thing that i have found if to hide and wait for him to come to you and then jump in combat. I am realy stuck on how to kill the little guys, they out number me, out shoot me, out move me and are my equil in close combat. Eldar are a pain in the arse
Question all that you see
Landspeeders can effectively solve most problems eldar give space marine players. Most aspect warriors are SV4+, easily destroyed by AC + HB, falcons dont like ACs either. The most important thing about landspeeders is they mach the eldars speed. So you can always use them as a 'counter shoot' unit. If an eldar unit moves to engage say a tactical squad, your well placed land speeder can pop out, and probably destroy whatever was shooting at you, such as an enemy viper, small guardian squad, dark reapers, this is because eldar tend to be fragile, while space marines are much tougher. Which allows you to set a system of board control a bait tactics. You take up all the shooting lanes, establishing board control, then bait the eldar player into shooting you with isolated units, which you then use fast unit to counter with. Typically You will come out ahead in this exchange.
Thus so long as you have the speed to return fire, you can outlast the eldar, if that fails, hope in a drop pod with a librarain and FOTD your way to victory.
Eldar farseers can be neutralized with a celuxes assassin and a librarian with a physic hood. It makes them want to cry ha ha. Really the celuxes assassin in general is awesome against eldar. All those warlocks, and farseers...mmmmm animus vitae. For me target priority with Eldar has always been Falcons transporting warriors first, then focus on some of the more expensive aspects. Sadly the easy way to kill dark reapers has kinda been blown out the wind ( man i loved the whirlwind) but a well protected whirlwind still can make mincemeat out of most squads. I always take that ( when not playing BTS) plus two preds with autocannons and las cannons sponsons They are cheap and are good against pretty much every unit an Eldar player can toss at you. Sadly loyalists lack the one sure fire amazing unit that Chaos has for eldar, the 4 man auto cannon squad with tank hunters... But you can if your willing to spend the points do the same with plasma cannons for a similar effect. If you have the book a Damculos Command Rhino and orbital strike are always good fun. Pick a spot you know they are going to be forced to move threw then watch as the units start flying. ( that choice is fairly impractical though and only works vs certain opponents) The one thing you want to do is make sure its you that gets to choose how your units get engage with his, i.e you wanta charge the firedragons, and shoot the banshees not the other way around. A squadron of Landspeeder Tornados works....until it gets hit with starcannons then your out quite a few points. Cheap and fast hqs are also things to consider. Avoid poring all those points into your Master, a jumppack termie honors, and maybe a fist is about the most i would spend on him. Oh and i assume most of you know this, but for the love of god don't waste points on termies, they will just get starcannoned.
Rheagar fought nobly
Rheagar fought valiantly
Rheagar fought honorably
And Rheagar died.
As was mentioned before, I think the most important thing against the Eldar is to restrict their ability to double (or more) team your units. The Eldar army is at its best when it can move around the board at high speed, able to isolate and destroy its targets. The Eldar will often try to surround a unit that is "sticking out" of your battleline and take it down with massed firepower (now aided by the ever wonderful Guide and Doom).
I think keeping a fairly tight formation (not having all of your models crammed together, but keeping your squads more or less localized) will aid Space Marines immensely, as it makes it very difficult for the Eldar to pick a unit and destroy it without being the target of several other squads of Space Marines. Take as many Marines on foot as possible and try to ignore the flashier parts of the army list. Meltaguns and power fists would be quite handy in case an Avatar or Wraithlord manages to charge you (less so against the Avatar, since it's immune to Melta weapons).
Another important thing to remember is that Eldar are pretty lacking in the Toughness and Armor departments. Most of them have a 4+ save at best, and a very average Toughness of 3. Heavy bolters would work wonders, but even the standard bolter can cut large chunks out of units when fired at close range (rapid fire is really nasty). Don't limit yourself to staying static to fire your heavy weapons (like the aforementioned heavy bolters) if it'll compromise your battle formation. Whirlwinds can be useful, as even though they must remain still to fire indirectly, they're cheap enough in points that it won't matter too much when (usually if) the Eldar take them out. Since a lot of Eldar units need to take to the field of battle on foot (even units like Howling Banshees and Dire Avengers), your Whirlwinds will often have some juicy targets to fire at before they're (possibly) taken out.
I'd avoid things like Predators and Land Raiders altogether (unless you play Black Templars. If you do, take a Crusader with Blessed Hull, as the Eldar will have a hard time taking it out, and will need to either devote large numbers of Brightlances, or a Prism Cannon to do so). Devastators can be okay, just don't be surprised if they don't get to shoot much during the game.
Happy hunting, guys.
I'd like some advise on how to programme a reliable counter to this tactic thought up by an Eldar friend of mine.
he's got 2 squads like this:
9xHowling Banshees, 1 of which is the Exarch with Mirrorswords
joined by Farseer with Doom, Guide and Spear
thrown into a Wave Serpent with TL BLs and Spirit Stones
Just can't seem to think up a way to deal with this that doesn't involve doomed marines getting chopped up by Banshees with Fortune...
Shoot the s*&% outta the Wave Serpeant. When it blows, some of the models are bound to die. Plus, if memory serves, they are pinned upon exit. Then shoot the s&^% outta them. Devastators with Missiles or Lascannons come to mind.