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Hello all, this is a new idea i had, based upon some discussion previously done in the "tactica against Eldar" thread. It was pointed out there that Dreadnoughts work very well offensively against Eldar but that it could quite easily be killed. So, on to my idea, wiithout further ado:
Dreadnoughtsssss. Yes, multiple dreadnoughts, working in PAIRS. The crazy idea i had was to have 2 Dreadnoughts stand BACK TO BACK. Why this peculiar deployment?
Because dreadnoughts became much more powerful vs. Eldar with the new rules since its survivability has been greatly raised due to 1.the lowered S (S6 Scorpions' Claw only) and inability to take haywire grenades of Striking Scorpions (which removes one of the most common CC threats to the Dreadnought) and 2.the nerfing of the Brightlance (it's points cost being crazily raised).
As such, the biggest threats to the Dreadnoughts nowadays are fast Eldar vehicles like Falcons and Vypers popping around to nail the AV10 rear armour of dreds with the mass of Str6 weaponry they have (Scatter Laser, Shuri Can, etc). Seen the batrep in the Nov issue of White Dwarf? =)
Standing Dreads back to back deny those nasty space elves this ability, and the best thing is that the Dreadnoughts' shooting ability will NOT be affected.
In the rulebook, Dread weapons' effective arcs are 180 degrees. Which means that any targets to the DIRECT LEFT or the DIRECT RIGHT of the back-to-back Dreads can be fired at by BOTH simultaneously.
Of course, you could still be easily killed by Fire Dragons, and this is where the pairing works. By getting within 6" to get the 2xSP dice bonus, FDs need to get within 6", which should easily be within assault range of the OTHER dred...and by keeping those Dreads to minimum equipment, like AC+DCCW+EA=110pts, the victory points you gain by CC-killing those FDs should balance any lost by the dead dred.
Any thoughts on this? =)
EDIT: This is a pure "army effectiveness" suggestion and is of course NOT fluffy. Just to see how we SM can beat Eldar, who many think are "damn near invincible" under the new rules.
Last edited by chickenpowder; December 4th, 2006 at 12:37.
I very rarely play against eldar, so no comment on that.
To play like this in tournaments, maybe. Winning at all costs could possibly be reason enough.
Friendly games, never! It's just not right. The unfluffyness rating is huge. I myself would be reluctant to play someone who did stuff like this.
Of couse, Ratus, this is for tourney play where winning is no. 1 priority...
It's just unfluffy to have two dreds walking around back to back!
It's also to give some advice to the people who want to use dreads vs. Eldar becoz they're good offensively but are worried about the Dred's defensive capabilites.
Easy there guys, lets keep this thread on target eh?
To be honest, I think it is a littel pointless,
The primary target of bright lances ar anything with AV13+, dreads dont fall into this category and so if they are targeted it is because of the lack of other targets, EML are still efective, vypers tend to have 6-7 shots, point for point they will manage a glance easily on a dread, as will squads of walkers or spiders, as you point out dragons will demolish them, etc
I am not saying that using dreads Vs Eldar is a nono, but that your approach of standing back to back is really not giving you that much
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Two dreadnoughts back to back is a very worthwhile target for an Eldar Fireprism, if they stand close enough, one blast with a focused blast should be able to hit both.
If you want their backs covered, you might want to keep them on the flank, facing slightly inwards towards the center.
Last edited by Illyrien; December 5th, 2006 at 23:28. Reason: To to Two
When I was your age Pluto was a planet and Wraithlords had D-cannons! Ah, the good old days!
Sorry if I snapped... Apologies to all.
It's just that that kind of gameplay brings a tear to my eye. Bikes backing in to cc to fit more of them in. Dreadnoughts back to back. Destroying a vehicle while covering the doors to kill of the passengers. Stuff like that... just don't feel nice....:cry:
It's OK Ratus...i'm not trying to convince people that this is a GOOD idea, im just exploring this crazy thought which popped into my head and asking for opinions from all of you out there. =)
It's perfectly fine that you snap - i know it's unfluffy and quite cheese AND definitely unsporting.
Illyrien, your idea about the flank positioning is good - i hadn't thought of that. And it's definitely MUCH better than the back to back concept. (at least people won't cry cheese!)
Rep for you.
I dont think much of the idea, I use the board edge occasionaly to stop them getting behind me (with long ranged Dreads).
To be honest though Eldar can still easily deal with a Dread or two, dozens of S6 shots from a handful of models will glance and stop you firing (as well as doing lasting damage half the time). I find Venerable somewhat useful for fending off the glancing 6's which bedevil my units.
You would look very silly if they just use EML and ignore your back/back formation.
Every time you read this sig: a fairie dies!
Agree with silver wings completely,
Most Eldar armies dont really care about dreads, they have sufficent str6 weaponry to deal with them and the odd Str8 one
Putting them back to back will not make them vulnerable to Prism tanks for the reasons stated
Everything you have been told is a lie!