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I have a theory that marines can either outshoot or be at least competitive in shooting against "any" army. Remember this is of course a theory. However this theory is unlikely to be accomplished at long range alone. Cause lets face it, the guardsmen and Tau are going to out shoot us at long range (cursed russes!!!). Instead what is required is a long range fire base with mobile medium range shooting units (ideally with countercharge capabilities).
So I pose this question. What do you feel are the best options for relatively mobile, medium range (24â€?-36â€?) shooty units in all of the respective force organization slots? I am especially interested in what the best options are for the tactical squads. I feel the standard 6 marine 1 plasma 1 lascannon does not really accomplish much in the way of medium range.
The theory is based around the idea that it is feasible to move up to within medium range and start unleashing some firepower. Can we ever outshoot the guard, tau, and eldar?
Any insight on this theory would be, well, insightful.
The best medium range weapon the SM's have is the God-Cannon, more commonly known as the Assault Cannon. So Termies as HQ or Elite. Dreads as Elite. LST's as FA. For HS probably the Heavy Bolter in a dev squad would be best. Tac squads are not the best at medium range. Your best bet would be to go with a large squad (8 or 10) with Cleans and Puify and go with 2 plasma guns.
Well, Land Speeder Tornadoes is almost the preprogrammed response highly mobile and capable of laying down a haildtorm of firepower at 24". - Pretty sure you meant 24".
Appart from that I love my Terminators against IG, they only tend towards afew low Bs, ap2 shots and it's 36 Lasgun shots for a single Termie kill mathmaticaly. Meanwhile Stormbolters/AC reap thier infantry or a pair of TH Krak ML take their tanks (or AC do it). They're mobile and optimised for 24".
In fact Deathwing fit the bill perfectly, shooty as heck at 24" and mobile to boot.
As for Tac's, they cant be mobile and shoot at 24" with anything but the Vet Sgts Stormbolter (which I do not recommend), you can drop/drive to 12" and Bolter rapid fire or stay at 24" and staticaly use heavy's+Plasma. Mobile ranged firepower is not a 'Tactical' thing.
I might say Dreadnoughts but feel they should be 'Podded to flame/run amock or standing off with TLLC/ML. Their armour's only as good as a Chimaeras after all. IG or Tau ought to KO a walking Stormbolter/AC with mediocre armour fairly easily.
Last edited by Katie Drake; December 7th, 2006 at 20:49.
Every time you read this sig: a fairie dies!
Yeah, terminators seem to fit the bill rather nicely, of course the point cost involved is nothing to laugh at.
I know the obvious response with the fast attack stuff is the land speeder tornado, but I've always felt more comfortable with bikes of all things. They fit the medium range theory well, with their moving and still able to fire at full bolter range, plus they make excellent anti tank units due to their mobility and of course two melta guns. They seem tougher then LST's also. I could be wrong about all of that of course.
Perhaps the troops choices would be better served with lascannons for anti tank and perhaps snipers for some long range punch. I do indeed agree with the tactical squads being poor at medium range and mobility applications. I was just hoping someone might have some other option to use them in this theory of mine.
I would also think heavy support is best as a long range thing, although vidicators are pretty vicious for this idea too. (too bad i just can't seem to get behind Space marine's vehicles, sans dreadnoughts.)
But could we at least be on par with IG and Tau without assaulting?
BTW thanks for the input so far, i hope to hear more.
I definitely like the tactical squad with 2 Plasma Guns using traits... I've used that extensively in my army, and four plasma gun shots per squad really melts a lot of MEQs... But against lighter-armored armies you realyl don't need the S7 attack. Also, if you want to spend some extra points, giving your Sergeant a Storm Bolter gives you a more mobile firebase.
Good point about the bikes. I think they can serve well as a flanking unit, and to mop up retreating enemy forces. What further enhances them in my mind is the ability to add an Attack Bike to the squad, with either a HB or MM, depending on your own style and who you are facing. Indeed, Tactical Squads, in my opinion, are designed to either stand and shoot, using traits such as Cleanse and Purify, or as an assault unit, with Take the Fight to Them, and even See But Dont Be Seen. MM on Tacticals, in my opinion, is worthless, as most tanks can out-Maneuver the 24" range, and if the Tactical Squad moves, the MM cannot fire. An option I personally am exploring is to use the Sisters of Battle, as they are designed for short and medium range firefighting, at least from the information I have gathered. Though I seem to recall a rule saying something about not being able to combine SoB and SM, I should figure that out first, lol. Though they are not Space Marines, shouldnt the Imperium use every mean available to smite its enemies?
Last edited by Shadow701; December 7th, 2006 at 03:18.
The reason I went (overboard) with a Bike army was that I wasn't too fond of the idea of having Space Marines remaining totally static. But I think a better compromise would be Cleanse and Purify and having Tactical squads armed with an extra special weapon.
I was also thinking of pairing it up with See but not be seen so I could infiltrate them in closer if need be (as well as deploying Devastator Squads in cover). Or even deploy the Tactical squads by Drop Pods.
What would be a fair amount of marines in such squads? Some people suggest the old 5-6man Plas/Las squads to be optimal, but I'm not looking into totally throwing them away.
How would full 10-man squads sound? The cost for Infiltration or Drop Pods would be the same, and you can select them if one mission doesn't allow one or the other for some reason. Would that be tooling?
well infiltration is hit or miss when we play. We will typically have a list ready and then roll for the mission level. Infiltrate would work great i would think though, as you could infiltrate into cover just a little ahead of the main force, within full range of the bolters. Maximize the rounds of bolter fire.
I also like having my entire force on the board to start with. Its gives me the most rounds of shooting possible before the enemy hits my line.
Aside from that i have tired the 10 man tactical squad as a shooty/counter charge unit. It usually works like this when setting up on long table edges. One turn of moving up stand still, then shoot. once that is dead move to the next target. It doesn't work bad, just that moving and firing maximizes the amount of shooting you are doing.
The whole idea behind my army is infiltration....It SEEMS like it would be a good strategy, especially because of the recent cityfights i've been getting into...
10 man tac squads with plasma guns starting off within range inside a building for the cover save.....Sounds good to me..or yes..infiltrating a missle Dev squad into cover so you can pop tanks with the side armor....or hell...pop the infantry........Nothing nicer than denying a person their saves
Yeah, infiltrating is VERY nice. Though you better hope your enemy doesnt do much of it, otherwise you could be screwed, what with the 12" and 18" restrictions.