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  1. #1
    Member Jythro_Bryhne's Avatar
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    Versing BA need help big time!!

    Ok i am versing a friends blood Angel Army Tommow and While i wont be changing my weapon options too much (because i cant much) but i want to see if ive got most of my bases covered
    HQ
    Command Squad 116
    Senior Officer
    Laspistol
    Power sword
    Veteran
    Regimental Standard
    Guardsman
    Master Vox
    Mortar Team

    Fire Support Squad 80
    Heavy Bolters

    Anti-tank Support Squad 95
    Missile Launchers

    Mortar Support Squad 80

    Sentinel Support Squadron “Old Nag� 60
    Autocannon
    Hunterkiller Missile

    Elites
    Independent Commissars
    Commissar 60 Borice “The Want Finder�
    Power Sword
    Laspistol
    Carapace

    Commissar 60 Michael “Forcible Encouragement� Darofski
    Laspistol
    Power sword
    Carapace

    Commissar Karlov “Trigger-Happy� Igeraf 55
    Laspistol
    Power Sword

    Storm trooper Squad “Suicide�174
    8 troopers
    Veteran Sergent
    Plasma Pistol
    Power sword
    Meltagun10
    Grenade Launcher
    Vox Caster
    Meltabombs
    Deepstrike


    Servo Skull Sniper Squad 55

    Troops
    Infantry Platoon

    Junior Officer 94
    Power Fist
    Power sword
    Frag Grenades

    Flamers x4
    Frag Grenades

    Infantry Squad “Bolt-Fodder� 86
    Seargant
    Lasgun
    Flamer
    Missile Launcher
    Vox Caster

    Infantry Squad “Bug Chow� 88
    Seargant
    Laspistol
    CCW
    Grenade Launcher
    Missile Launcher
    Vox Caster

    Conscript Infantry Platoon “Meat-Shield� 120
    30 Conscripts


    Armoured Fist squad “Machine-gun Runners� 86
    Sergeant
    Laspistol
    CCW
    Flamer
    Missile Launcher
    Vox Caster

    Chimera “Can-o-Kills� 85
    Heavy Bolter
    Hull Heavy Bolter


    Fast Attack
    Hellhound “Pyrethium Disaster� 115


    Sentinel Support Squad “Bolt-Riddled� 65
    Multimelta
    Hunterkiller Missile

    Sentinel Support Squad “Tinfoil Dreadnought� 50
    Heavy Flamer
    Hunter Killer Missile

    Heavy Support
    Kroot Hunter Kindred 106
    Shaper
    Power Sword
    Hunting Rifle

    Basilsk “Coward Employment� 145
    Indirect Fire
    Armoured Crew Compartment

    1814

    The plays with 2 scout sqauds 1 with snipes and a rocket laincher and one with ccws and shotguns two tac squads with bolters, one furioso dread, one dread with either a rocket luachcher and a lascannon or assualtcannon rocketlaucher, also a baal preditor and a whirlwind along with deathcompany lead by a chappie. I wanted to know what you thought the most threats were and what is should do. im using the doctrines Indepentdant Commissars, Stormtroopers, Ratlings, Conscripts and Drop troops.
    Thanks for your help in advance.

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  3. #2
    Monkey Pirate Greenbeard The Ex-pirate's Avatar
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    well if your playing Blood Angels drop the mortars, grenade launchers, flamers, frag grenades( never seen much a point in these, how much charging does a guard army DO) you really don't need the heavy bolters, missile launchers perform better. Also if you can plasma guns for your squads special weapons, they are murder on marines( well murder on pretty much anything really) Swap the weapon on the sentinel an autocannon aint doing much versus marines. Also I aint overly found of snipers, your better off taking another squad. Er moving along then. The storm troopers would be better off with two of one weapon ( plasma guns or melta guns). Also the sentinel with the heavy flammer can go, that or put a better weapon on it, it will never get close enough to fire that thing against marines. Oh your hellhound should always have extra armor and smoke launchers ( any tank should really have that, its eight points of insurance that can help keep the thing alive). Your heavy support needs an overhaul, personally i hate kroot, would never go into battle with out my russes, and my bassie, but thats just me. Drop the armored crew compartment on the bassie, its not worth the points. If your worried about it getting shot up, use your other tanks as a screen for it. *cough cough* sentinel squads block line of sight and can be deployed 4 inches apart *cough cough*
    I'll have more comments latter, I'm in the middle of writing a lab report right now, so sorry if my thoughts are a little scattered and hard to follow, i should have more for you tomorrow.
    Rheagar fought nobly
    Rheagar fought valiantly
    Rheagar fought honorably
    And Rheagar died.

  4. #3
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    My personal guess is that most of this list is based on fluff reasons.

    Take into consideration carapace armor for all your squads, it will immunize them from boltguns fire as well as heavy bolters thus making tactical squads and the predator useless.

    Their main focus is tactical and assault marine squads, and both are just as vulnerable to Str7 Ap2 weapons, so plasma and melta weapons are you best options. I value plasma over melta due to fairly weak vehicle armor of space marines, as well as plasma gun being a rapid fire weapon while melta only provides one shot.

    Also, heavy bolters and missile launchers arent the best heavy weapons in my opinion. Missile launcher~more or less ok, since its Ap3, but if you will be facing terminators then lascannnons are a must. They will also help you against any dreadnaughts that might attempt to be a little too "vigilant"

    Whirlwind is a devastating tank, however sentinels have 48" weapons and get a free move before the game, their lascannons will take down any rhino chassis tank down fairly easily. Also a basilisk can proove useful against distant stationary targets.

    The main suggestion that I can give you is, interchanging storm troopers for hardened veterans and giving them carapace with 3 plasma guns and a plasma pistol to sergeant, with a drop troop doctrine. If you take veteran doctrine, and take 3 units of veterants with this configuration...all I can say is that blood angels, or any other space marine army will not stand a ghost of a chance.

    Lastly, hellhound isnt the best tank against power armored foes. It will be a waste, especially if the BAdreadnaught has a twin lascannon on it. Droping it, or at least replacing with a different tank it my recomendation. Also, a basilisk with an armored compartment is useless, especially if BA feature a whirlwind. The begining of the game will turn out to be a dual between the two, as any BA player will try really hard to silence anything that fire ordnace Ap3 shells indirectly with unlimited range. Best just keep it cheap and effectrive
    Last edited by WraithGuardian; December 18th, 2006 at 06:50.

  5. #4
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    I must say that Heavy Bolters and Autocannon will go right through Carapace armour, as well as Assault Cannon. And if you take Carapace every single guardsman has to take it, so don't treat it as a snap decision.

    Command Squad 116
    Senior Officer
    Laspistol
    Power sword
    Veteran
    Regimental Standard
    Guardsman
    Master Vox
    Mortar Team
    Ordinarily I wouldn't recommend a weapon for officers but then again they are Blood Angels. I'm not too sure of the Mortar there though, I'd probably take a Plasma Gun. SM tend to shrug off Mortars.

    Fire Support Squad 80
    Heavy Bolters

    Anti-tank Support Squad 95
    Missile Launchers

    Mortar Support Squad 80

    Sentinel Support Squadron “Old Nag� 60
    Autocannon
    Hunterkiller Missile
    I think this should be fine. Though I'd prefer more MLs, I think the Mortars could give him something to think about when he's advancing forward and because he'd hide behind cover as he approaches. They're good in larger numbers is all, that's why I didn't like the lone mortar in the Command Squad.

    Elites
    Independent Commissars
    Commissar 60 Borice “The Want Finder�
    Power Sword
    Laspistol
    Carapace

    Commissar 60 Michael “Forcible Encouragement� Darofski
    Laspistol
    Power sword
    Carapace

    Commissar Karlov “Trigger-Happy� Igeraf 55
    Laspistol
    Power Sword
    Not a fan of leashes per se, but since they're IC this could work out. I just think they'd be killed off rather quickly against SM, and I'd think that Carapace here would be wasted.

    Storm trooper Squad “Suicide�174
    8 troopers
    Veteran Sergent
    Plasma Pistol
    Power sword
    Meltagun10
    Grenade Launcher
    Vox Caster
    Meltabombs
    Deepstrike
    A bit pricey for a suicide squad. What are these guys doing? Deep Strike Anti-vee? You'd be able to trim off a bit of the extras there if you needed to.

    Troops
    Infantry Platoon

    Junior Officer 94
    Power Fist
    Power sword
    Frag Grenades

    Flamers x4
    Frag Grenades

    Infantry Squad “Bolt-Fodder� 86
    Seargant
    Lasgun
    Flamer
    Missile Launcher
    Vox Caster

    Infantry Squad “Bug Chow� 88
    Seargant
    Laspistol
    CCW
    Grenade Launcher
    Missile Launcher
    Vox Caster
    Okay you gave your JO both a Power Sword and Power Fist? Then gave his squad Flamers? Would it be possible to promote one of his squad to a Vet and give him the PF? Just in case he lives through the melee. I'd be tempted to use Plasma Guns here too if you needed.

    Your troops are alright, I can see how a Flamer and ML can work together but the GL/ML is a sweet combo.

    Conscript Infantry Platoon “Meat-Shield� 120
    30 Conscripts

    Armoured Fist squad “Machine-gun Runners� 86
    Sergeant
    Laspistol
    CCW
    Flamer
    Missile Launcher
    Vox Caster

    Chimera “Can-o-Kills� 85
    Heavy Bolter
    Hull Heavy Bolter
    The 30 Conscripts are rather odd, but should work out well in holding off some big force as a tarpit.

    Again, I'd prefer the bigger guns but you can change out the Flamer for say another Grenade Launcher. Also, the Chimera's Heavy Bolter turret can be changed for a Multi-Laser (just call it that if it's already modelled as a bolter). It's stronger and it can wound MEQs better.

    Sentinel Support Squad “Bolt-Riddled� 65
    Multimelta
    Hunterkiller Missile

    Sentinel Support Squad “Tinfoil Dreadnought� 50
    Heavy Flamer
    Hunter Killer Missile
    How are those HK Missiles working for ya? I've been tempted to leave them off, not a fan of one shot weaponry with a GM's BS. Also I think you mean Multi-Laser there, if possible make them both multi-laser equipped ones. And you're math's a bit off for the second one which should be 60.


    Heavy Support
    Kroot Hunter Kindred 106
    Shaper
    Power Sword
    Hunting Rifle

    Basilsk “Coward Employment� 145
    Indirect Fire
    Armoured Crew Compartment
    Kroot? Foul Xenos! Why I oughta...

    Heh well I know nothing about Kroot mercs or their viability and usefulness.

    But I do know my Basilisks, and I gotta tell you the Armoured Crew Compartment really isn't worth it. Not for a tank with this armour. If you have a second Bassie available, then you could replace it for the same-ish points cost of what you have there. Just give them both IF and watch out for Deep Strikers.


    The plays with 2 scout sqauds 1 with snipes and a rocket laincher and one with ccws and shotguns two tac squads with bolters, one furioso dread, one dread with either a rocket luachcher and a lascannon or assualtcannon rocketlaucher, also a baal preditor and a whirlwind along with deathcompany lead by a chappie. I wanted to know what you thought the most threats were and what is should do. im using the doctrines Indepentdant Commissars, Stormtroopers, Ratlings, Conscripts and Drop troops.
    Thanks for your help in advance.
    With that list I don't think getting too much Plasma really was necessary. But you need a bit more in heavy hitters, missile launchers if you can.

    Send your Conscripts against a Dread if possible. Really, they're going to get slaughtered but you need them to stop shooting or hurting your other guys. Does he Drop Pod the Furioso for anti-vee?

    I guess you're sending in the Stormies against the Whirlwind then? Really if you can outfit them with some solid anti-vee it'd help out. Or call them Hardened Veterans and give them Meltaguns/Plasma Guns. You can drop them in for free even, don't need to buy DS like with Stormies.

    It's not the kinda list I'd take, it has character though.

    Send the Hellhound against the scouts asap, rush in your armoured fist guys too and tie up the Scouts and Tacticals. Don't want them shooting at your boys. If you can plonk your Conscripts down one flank and advance you could use them as meatshields while you bombard their position and wait for the Stormies to come in.

    That Death Company would probably be near the chunk of his shooting. If you want to protect the Conscripts then advance them behind the Chimera and Hellhound so they're protected. Yes, I'm saying charge with the Conscripts, if they can't reach either shooting chunk then they can keep them busy and tie-up their firing.

    But you know I'm just a little confused... I started out with Blood Angels myself, mostly cause I got free BA-looking models, so it's strange to see a mostly shooty list here. He's going to be pulled forward and probably disrupted in shooting heavy weaponry. Hence my pre-occupation with eliminating their firing line.

    And here I go rambling again... Let us know how it works out!


    EDIT: Once you're done blasting away at his firing line, or if you feel particularly lucky, send your first Basilisk shot at his Whirlwind. It's the same chance to damage with a Lascannon, but it's Ordnance. If you do it before you Deep Strike anything then you could scatter to something else that could die.

    I managed to do that before, blew up a Whirlwind and a Land Raider Crusader in the first round of shooting from two Bassies, and boy was the other guy pissed! It's just too bad I didn't roll Vehicle Annihilated and killed his Termies inside...


    EDIT 2: I knew I forgot something, the Baal Predator. Fire all your Missile Launchers at it. Hell, even send your Stormies against it first if you want. It's bad mojo man... a twin-linked Assault Cannon and Heavy Bolters mean it chews through even Carapace Armour-equipped forces.

    It may be hard to get Penetrating Hits but it should be doable. That thing will start shredding you as soon as it has a clear shot. Even your Chimera/Hellhounds aren't safe from it. And it's mobile too, as its weapons aren't considered "main" armaments.
    Last edited by Marwynn; December 18th, 2006 at 07:35.

  6. #5
    Member Jythro_Bryhne's Avatar
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    Ok thank you all for your help
    Many of my weapon and vehicle options cant be changed due to the fact i dont have the models for such a thing. Though now the storm troopers have twin meltaguns for taking out that whirlwind. I could change the chimera turret to a autocannon if that would help. By the way all my sentinels are deepstrikeing and i have changed the autocannon to a lascannon on the first sentinel. I can add any missile launchers as i have run out of arms (lol) pretymuch of all kinds and only have twomissile lauchers. I was going to add three more mortars becuase i can. His baal pred makes use of heavy flamer sponsoons rather than HB. He does not deepstrike the Furioso dread nor does he have any termies (doesent like the idea of them becoming death company). You are right, though, in thinking that he has a rather shooty list for blood angels, bjut it seems to be working, seeing as he come 13 or 14 in the victorian GT he is also sponsered by mind games (an australian hoppy centre shop thing) to play in tournies with thier shirt on. So i dont really stand much of a chance anyway. But i might try to trick him by deepstriking the whole army. And on the sentinel it can have a multimelta or heavy bolte rif it deep strikes (forgeworld).
    So thanks again for your help and advice you guys a great.
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    Likes throwing people off I imagine, tried doing the same but I'm not that good an SM player to pull it off.

    If you're Deep Striking the whole list, or as much as you can, get rid of armored compartments and put in Improved Comms in their place. Same points cost, just a bit more useful with the DT doctrine. And keep those Sents with IC on the ground. For instance that Lascannon one.

    You can even put it on the Basilisk if you wanted.

    Oh you're using the Elysian Sentinel there, yeah the MM's going to rock. DS that thing definitely.

    G'luck man, let us know how it turns out.

  8. #7
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    Hi. I play Blood Angels, daemon hunters, and have a ton of inducted guard, so I can tell you a little about how to kill BA.

    BA's primary advantage lies in mobilty rather than assault. We have a jump pack HQ (2 even), rhinos/razorbacks with overcharged engines, a relic that gives up 2D6 sweeping advance after a massacre (yup, that's 4th ed rules), and the black rage, which basically is a a in 6 chance of being fleet of foot per turn per unit.

    To kill BA, do everything you can to mitigate their mobility and you should stand a chance against their assault.

    BA as an assault army require well-timed assaults. if you can prevent one or two units from assaulting in a given turn, while the rest assault, any army should be able to take it, pile in, and grind them down, even the DC.

    To disrupt their assaults, try pinning them. Mortars, despite the conventional wisdom, work for this. Drop them on their non-fearless assault squads. They loose a model, they need to make a pin check. And mortar HW team is cheap and worth it IMHO. Same deal with bassies. I would use a bassie against a non-fearless unit, to try to kill models, of course, but more importantly to pin with a -1 penalty any non-fearless squad. Go after the assault squads, again. They're relatively susceptible to this. then use the Lr and LRD's to flatten the death company. You don't have to copmletely wipe it out. Just get it down to manageable proportions (under 1/2 size or so). Ironically, the easiestplace to kill DC is in cc with power weapons of any type. DC would loose their feel no paint and their armor save to wounds generated by these. Also, anything that's S8 or better instakills them without recourse to their feel no pain save.

    Destroy their rhinos to entangle the occupants.

    Scouts go down pretty easily if you can get a turn of shooting on them b/c they have 4+ armor save. flamers here will do fine, as will the entire gamut of small fire, from lasguns to meltaguns.

    Demolition charges from a special weapons team deployed in a chimera are effective. Just take a pair of flamers also, just in case you miss. Key is getting wounds and forcing armor saves.

    Play a mission-based game that's not cleanse or annihilate. He'l have to divert resources if he wants to win.

    As a BA player, I use my long range shooting tokill light IG armor, like chimeras, sentinels, or hellhounds, and use assault squads with MB and melta guns at short range to kill heavy armor. I also tend to run down a flank, so set up using a denied flank strategy and keep your stuff together.

    be yin to their yang. Don't go power weapon to power weapon in cc. You'll loose if you try. Go yin to their mobility. So have a ton of firepower,which iswhat guard is best at.

    I've found storm troopers to be resilient enough to be a bit of a pain if they counter-charge. A 10-man squad canusually go through 3 or so assault marines if that's all I have left in the squad, if they charge. They might not do it in one turn, but they'll usually win by weight of numbers.

    Take at least 1 infiltrating ST or veteran squad. if you get to deploy your infiltrators first, spread your squad out in the middle of the board from left to right, about 2" apart. This will force him to set up his infiltrators in either corner of his own board edge. That's just another way to handle his mobility--denying his scouts a place to forward deploy. You'll probably loose the squad after his turn, but you won't have to worry about the relatively slow scouts til about turn 3 or 4 at least.

    Set up diagonally on the board...the one where you measure 18" in from opposite board edges. I find this set up is the fairest between armies, esp. if one is assaulty and one is shooty.

    Let me know how the game goes. I loves my angels. =)

  9. #8
    Member Jythro_Bryhne's Avatar
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    Thank you very much, thats more informative than i could've ever hoped for. I will be glad to let you know how it goes but weve postponed it 'till after christmas, as he is getting 30 assualt marines and im getting my tanks.
    All Mac Users Go To Hell.

  10. #9
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    It was my pleasure.

    If you want to keep the BA player tied up in cc through his turn, I would suggest taking the doctrine that let you ignore negative LD modifiers in cc, to make it much more difficult for him to massacre.

    Have fun, and kick a little marine ceramite. =)


    Here's a link to my DH with the inducted IG in it: The Emporer's Light
    Last edited by OverchargeThis!; December 23rd, 2006 at 00:06.

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    How'd it go, mate?

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