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This is a bit of a short notice thread, but I'm looking to brainstorm a little. Tomorrow, I'm fighting a pretty nasty Eldar player at my local hobby store, and I'm having a few issues deciding how to kit out my army. I have an army list or two drafted up, but before I go into the specifics of what, I wanted to find a little advice out here.
I know he definitely has a thing for Shining Spears, so I can expect some stuff in my face pretty early on. Aside from that, I don't know exactly what to expect him to field besides some nasty charging jetbikes. Any suggestions on a good way to set up my Marine army to handle him?
I would suggest tanks with...cant remember the name off the top of my head, but the One-Shot missile, then lots of heavy bolters. With the jet bikes your really only talking t4 they can turboboost for an invulnerable save but you throw enough fire into the squad and they'll die like any other guardian. Just watch out for those farseers, Lascannons work very nice on them :-)
So he likes Spears? If you have a True Grit traited army you can really lay the hurt on him. Force that ultra-expensive Spear squad to take twice as many saves. One fails, that's 35pts+ gone.
With a Spear/Jetbike army, you need to be prepared for being on the defensive, so a lot of short range weapons are good. But with all things, a bit of range ios always acceptable.
The only real threat (compartitively) is a bunch on normal screening Jetbikes, they can come in much higher number, the Spears' main power comes from charging, so kit out for defensive Assaulty.
Lots of high fire-rate power attacks will stop those pesky Vipers & Falcons, too. They say the Lascannons are nice for Farseers, but an Assault Cannon is too. Anything with S6+ will instantly kill anything but Phoenix Lords, Wraiths, & the Avatar. This coupled with Spears' 3-5 size will make a squad of Termies with a fair amount of spare wounds a thing of nightmares. I don't want to sound over the top, but 2 7-man squads will rule them. That's 2 targets hit with 8 Assault cannon & 10 Storm Bolter shots... Not bad at all.
Lascannons aren't that good, I'd say Heavy Bolters are the way to go with an army like that, the turbo invulnerable save is not affected by any AP (duh), so why not just force heaps of saves? Treat it like Marines but more expensive and even LESS than us in a squad. But this is if you take any heavy weapons, whch I advise against. You need to equip appropriately for being in the think of it from word go.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
Land speeders are a great counter to shinning spears. Since they will either be turbo boosting, or assaulting. Thus your better off forcing a massive number of saves.
A chaplain lead assault squad is a good unit to take on jet bikes (With furious charge shinning spears, so long as you charge.) With some traits you could take them as elites (so you can field more land speeders). The jet bikes will probably turbo boost at you, and thus you can charge them turn 1, if you go second, or turn 2, if you go first.
Sometimes shinning spears look like they can be effective anti tank, they cant be, because they need to charge, otherwise they are sitting ducks. Anyway, this may mean the eldar forgets to field enough anti tank weapons. Which would make predator destructors viable, and possibly dreadnoughts.
Bolters are still nice, just force him to take a lot of saves, counter charge units are important.
With all the new Eldar stuff seems like more and more folks are starting them, so I've been working cheap librarians into my army lists more and more. Mileage will vary, but the last couple of lists I've made, I've paid the extra points for the Epi over the Codicier to get the extra point of Ld, but then I kit him out for basic shooting and stick him in a tac squad upon deployment. I don't even pay for the extra power or the fancy assault wargear (that's what the chaplain is for), he's strictly there to screw up the psychic powers. If I have the points to spare, Might of Heroes is handy for the mere cost of a storm bolter and can surprise opponents who do get close enough to assault. I give him that, and a BP. That's it. Since I'm not getting him into CC, stuff like T. Honors, a familiar, purity seals, etc. is points spent more effectively elsewhere.
In my experience at least, a lot of Eldar players have a hard, well, harder time getting around when your hooding all their psychic stuff into being worthless.
We all carry on,
When our brothers in arms are gone.
So raise your glass high
For tomorrow we die,
And return from the ashes you call.
When against those crazy spears.....try to deny him the charge or force him to realize that charging equals death.
I use a cheap assault squad as a backline to jump in front and assault them if the eldar player gets foolish and leaves them within 18 inches of my jump packs (honestly happens a lot)
but the contingency plan is a dreadnought that sticks near your backline to provide a nasty countercharge unit so that on your assault phase afterwards you can lay the hurt on him.
Raven Claws Space Marine Chapter........2500 points
Waagh Rotskrag (in building process)
Member of the Fluffmaster Clan
Or will they?
What are the most commonly reccomended units for SM? Chaplain Asssault squad, individual LSTs, 8-man 4-missile dev squads. You have reccomended 2 of the 3.
They ARE very effective, i won't dare disagree with that. But if this player is worth their rock salt, they'll be preparing for these 3 units and will have ways to remove them.
@ Tritoch: His advice is sound, but try to screw your opponent over by taking things you wouldn't take as a typical SM player.
My reasoning, Spears = high-skill army. If enemy has high skill, nothing typical will save you especially much because they are prepared. If enemy isn't skilled enough, anything will kill him.
Just (hopefully) sparking a new line of thought.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; January 1st, 2007 at 11:19.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
You're spending around 150pts purely to stop one small aspect of your opponent's strategy - you're likely to be better off with a cheaper commander to run across the table with a handful of guys with the same points value. That way you've got all of those points doing something, rather than roughly 25 out of 130-150 (that's going to work less than 50% of the time).
In a generic list I'd not bother unless I really wanted a librarian theme. Chaplains and Commanders are excellent fighters and support the models around them much more.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone