Advantages and Disadvantages of Deathwing - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    Advantages and Disadvantages of Deathwing

    Hello, after some recent research, my eyes befell on the deathwind regiment of the dark angel space marines. I tool me a whle to decide, my two usualy armies that I play were IG and dark eldar so this is probably going to be a big jump in changing tactics, strategy and unit selection. I have played many deathwing players, and also got a chance to review the codex but before I buy one of my own, I would like to hear some experienced opinions about the force as well as unit selection that is available to them.

    I also would like to hear some opinions about the following specifics:

    1.Possible HQ configurations, as well as weapons and how to use it.
    2.Dreadnaughts, fun top play but how to equip. Keep cheap with an assault cannon and power fist or dedicate some points to make venerable and use a varity of weapons and upgrades.
    3. Dreadnaught tacts, what exactly is it supposed to do, draw fire, provide cover fire, CC beast or ...
    4.Land raider concept, prometheus is the command one with sponson heavy bolters and isnt really good in combat, hellios is the missile pack equiped one which also isnt the best options. But my question is land raider, and crusader choice, The advantges of both.
    5.For deathwing I am guessing the land raider is better, crusader is more CC assault oriented for black templar kinda thing
    6.Overall terminator tactics, how to use and equip for best potential

    Thats a lot of topics but I hope some one will have some time on his hands to answer there, thanks!


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Sinjin's Avatar
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    First, I would tell you that Deathwing armies are not the most competitive armies around. The problem is model count. Your average model is 40+ points. Because of this, unless your playing a huge point level, you really can't afford to field any Land Raiders or such…they will just further reduce your already low model count. Probably the best HQ choice would be a Librarian if you were going shooty, or Chaplain if going assaulty. As far as overall tactics, shooting is much better. Terminators are too slow to be effective CC units. You can teleport them, but that is dangerous, and reserve rolls can be unreliable.

    And a final piece of advice…right now would have to be the absolute worst time ever to start a Deathwing army. The new Dark Angle codex will be out in less then 2 months, and there are some big changes to how Deathwing armies will work….worse at shooting and better at CC if the rumors are true.

  4. #3
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    As Sinjn says, there are potential changes upcomming so now is not a good time, but:

    Basic DW says - forget land raiders, these are a points sink when you are paying for expensive troops, forget assault termiess (until we can take them in tac squads again) stick with small squads with assault cannon, to add range and tanti tank use dreads with ML and TLLC
    for HQ in cheaper battles take a master with a power weapon,
    in more expensive forces take a libby with Fury of the ancients so you can hit hoards (see my avatar)

    This is basically a shooty army dont deepstrike just abliterate everything within 24 inches then move on

    There is a varriant which is more risky and uses a list mostly as above, except the HQ (Libby plus 4 man command squad with assault cannons) drop pods right into the middle of your opponents army and the libby uses fear of the darkness to spook the enemy, but that tends to only be effective VS low moral troops
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  5. #4
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    In my opinion, Terminators pay points for things they never use, namely powerfists. And LandRaiders can be taken out by a lucky roll, even on the first turn. Brightlances and Lascannons are a nightmare. Really, Deathwing armies are terribly unbalanced because of the lack of cheap transport, and the units themselves are horrifically expensive.

    Dreadnoughts are walking lightning rods. They're begging to be smacked. But! I would keep the dreadnoughts shooty, just to fit your army, for the most part.

    Yea sure, Deathwing armies are unbalanced, but they're fun as hell to play. I wouldn't recommend starting one now, as Sinjin and Cheredanine said. Maybe, they might get more close combat oriented. Good news for you!

    I'm still waiting to see a Tyranid Zilla list take on Deathwing!
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  6. #5
    Senior Member The Shrike's Avatar
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    Hey Alaric, if you're wondering what happens when a Nidzilla list meets deathwing, I can tell you. I have 10 AC's in my list, rending owned the TMC's one by one, and my Chappie with Assault Termies held up the Hive Tyrant and his Tyrant Guard. It was close though, his genestealers almost got into combat with me twice. When choosing whether to shoot at genestealers, a hive tyrant and guard, a winged hive tyrant or 6 carnifexes...it gets tricky and the dice gods take over. Honestly, it's probably one of the most epic matchups possible, it's wicked fun and can go either way depending on deployment, mission and terrain. I recommend it highly. As for Deathwing though, terrible time to start. They will only be allowed one heavy weapon per unit. This means that a vanilla SM list can actually out-termy the all termy army by taking 3 elite termy squads and 2 command squads with 2 small scout squads as troops. You can even still take dreadnoughts by taking the "Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients" trait which allows dreadnoughts as heavy support as well as elites. Go figure, GW doing something retarded. We will find a way around your bull**** GW! :shakes fist: Go fix something that really is broken.

  7. #6
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    Haha funny way to see it..I never thought of it like that..GW really did screw up didn't they? Might as well just start a "Deathwing" army..Minus the Deathwing and bad rules.
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  8. #7
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    I have been at GW today, the dark angel codexes are obviously gone... but the new rules are scheduled to come out the end of February/early March. And yes I did hear something about deathwing being majorly screwed. However some basic consepts will not change, and those are the once that I would like to get answered:

    Land raider - from what I have heard, any version is a waste and will never pay for itself

    Dreadnaught - still cant decide how many is sufficient, 1 or 2. Also, if one then venerable or regular?

    CC weapons - I am guessing chainfist isnt all that great, hammer and shield are also quite pointless, yet lightning claws are quite good at what they do

    Ranged weapons - assault cannons are obvious, flamers are secondary. Cyclone rockets, are they worth their point??? Probably not if you ask me...

    HQ - Whats the best config, items, weapons and kind of retinue CC or range oriented

    Thanks

  9. #8
    Senior Member The Shrike's Avatar
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    Ok, on the landraider, it depends on what else is in your army and how you're going to use it. Personally, I would never take one unless I was doing a 3-4 LRC rush with Assault Termies in all of them. The reason is that there is way too much dedicated anti-tank out there for just one, even with POTMS and AV14.

    On the CC weapons, The Thunder Hammer IS NOT a bad option, you should just have a good ratio for them to LC's. No one can say what the perfect ratio is but in my 5 man Assault Squad (in a drop pod) I take 3 pairs of LC's and 2 TH's. Some people would prefer only 1 but I face alot of TMC's, C'tans and wraithlords so I tend to go for 2. I've never done it, but there's also the drop pod 5 TH's and tank hunters layout, but if you ask me, there are better anti-tank options, even for deathwing.

    Heavy Weapons- Assault Cannons all the way, unless you want to be fluffy, or not cheesy, or know that you'll be drop podding everything against a Tau/Guard army that's stationary.

    Dreadnoughts- Take 2, both Lascannon/ML, no need for venerable just extra armor and smoke launchers

    I don't remember what else you asked, but that's my best shot, cheers.

  10. #9
    Senior Member The Shrike's Avatar
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    O, HQ....

    For CC- if you want cc you've got to go all or nothing. either center your army around this unit, or don't take it at all. if you decide to, then here it is. 7 Assault Termies with Furious Charge- 301 + a Terminator Chappie in an LRC. Litanies of Hate rerolls to hit, LC's reroll to wound, your only problem will be overkill. I take this in very select situations borrowing my friends LRC. Perosnally, I'd avoid this, for the same reason as before about the land raiders, 3 or none.

    For shooting: Libby with FOTA and 5 Termies with 2 AC's is the ever-popular always effective option.

    Cheers.

  11. #10
    Member Alaric's Avatar
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    Cmac is completely right. Terminators will get eaten up if half your force is still in the deployment zone and the other half is right up there riding in a Landraider, soon to be shot out. Deathwing is not a army to be played in 1000point games.
    If you feel that I have been helpful, please click the star, and do the same for anyone else who gives you a hand.

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