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I just thought I'd get some input on what the consensus was with this hefty tank. I know as a landraider it is know as a "point sink" and I think so many times. The crusader though has much more firepower then the original. The most confusing part again with the raiders of the GK are whether we get the machine spirit or not. That aside and all I think it to be a quite devistation tank.
Once for fun I took three as we are one of the two armies that can field multiple crusaders(Black Templar) and found it to be overwhelmingly powerful. As I fought a balanced Tau list it seemed eat through their units. I'd like to say it wasn't a real battle as a tank hunting one would shred it but one to try something fun :shifty:
Good tank in general, but if you use primarily Grey Knights, it's not the best idea in the world. You definitely will get more bang for your buck by using those points for another squad of Grey Knights, or a Dread, or whatever else you can think of. Grey Knights are powerful, but they die just as easily as regular Marines, so you need as many wounds as you can get, in my eyes.
It's especially bad if you take the LRC with Terminators, which are quite expensive to begin with - that's easily 500+ points into a single, albeit hard-hitting (if they ever get into combat), unit.
I think the only time that the LRC will prove to be useful is in a large battle where you can afford to take more vehicle support - if it is one of two or three, it will probably get taken down, especially by Lance or Rail wielding enemies (Eldar, both types, and Tau, respectively).
I find that more wounds on the table will help more in the long run.
as a single target yes, but more then one lol what then?
I'd rather have wounds to soak up the hits and to dish out the Storm Bolter fire and Nemesis Force Weapon cuttin' than to rely on the chance that my opponent might forget to bring their anti-tank.
In 40k, anti-tank weaponry is becoming the new fad, so it's terribly difficult to avoid.
I agree with the more grey knights, but still the thougth of them assualting out of a crusader is lovely isnt it?
I pretty much agree with Lost Nemesis. If you're going to take one land raider tank, you really have to take two. This way you have a better chance of keeping your investmenet alive. However, you then have to adjust your tactics accordingly. You will be making the land raiders the centerpiece of your army list, strategy, and tactics. Personally, I think a more reliable and adaptable DH army is built on a solid core of troops, not on multiple heavy tanks. But I suppose it can be done.
I've been in contact with a pure GK player who claims to have been highly successful (better than 90% wins) with 2 normal land raiders in a 1000 pt list, 3 in 1500 pts. But he also doesn't play aggressively with them, just uses the sponson lascannons to snipe targets while hiding behind cover, constantly retreating, essentially winning games through slow, slow attrition. It sounds incredibly difficult and not a lot of fun to play. I also tend to think that, against merely average commanders of armies like Tau, Eldar, and Necrons (for example), the land raider-centric GK army would crumple with even a modicum of competence and average dice. There just isn't enough terrain on a normal board -- or even Cities of Death -- to prevent those kinds of armies from accruing solid targeting solutions round after round.
In the end, I think the LR tanks are luxuries that you can't normally afford. Stick with dreadnoughts for heavy support, and get your army as full of troops as you can.
That said, if you want to have fun with the tanks, I think you'll be most successful if you try the following things.
* Always take at least two. You need to prevent your tanks from dying to fire saturation.
* Always take two of the same kind. That way you can employ a single, coherent tactic. This tactic will be the guiding principle behind how you fight with your army. The land raiders must control how you fight.
* If you take two normal Land Raiders, you pretty much have to fight defensively, as the player I mentioned above does. You snipe targets of opportunity, attempting to keep the mass of your LRs behind cover and taking advantage of the sponson position of the TLLCs. You whittle away at the enemy and make them chase you. Make them feel like they are at the mercy of your massive gun platforms. A BC carrying a psycannon as a mobile sniper in small games, or a squad of GKTs with psycannons work well with this kind of army. They're maneuvarable, survivable, and can add to your heavy firepower. And that's how you should use them: as mobile firing units, not as assault troops. Your PAGK squads should stay near the LRs and shoot when they can, taking a ride when/if the enemy gets close. You can't afford any casualties! Again, your GKs are mobile fire platforms, not assault units.
* If you take two LR Crusaders, you have to play a full-out assault army. Put 5-6 man GK squads in each LRC, TP homers on the Justicars. Deep strike everything else in your army. Rush the LRCs up to the enemy at full speed. Don't worry about popping enemy armour until they've delivered their cargo safely. GKs in close combat are safe from enemy fire anyway, and that's how you'll continue to keep them safe every turn of the game.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
I like the LRC, but I only start to think about it in games at 1700pts or more. There just isn't enough space in less lists to take them IMO.
Landraiders are good because:
1> They are the most effective way to get in your Assault troops (Terminators).
2> They can draw fire from the enemy away from your other vehicles (Dreads, Chimeras and Rhinos).
3> They can be used as mobile cover for footsloggers and Serephim!
Landraiders are bad because:
1> They can be blown up in one shot.
2> Are difficult to conceal.
3> Do take up a lot of points, points that it generally doesn't make back itself.
If you take a Landraider, I only would take one LRC and then if you take another, take a regular Landraider just for the firepower and Lascannons.
Take a teleport homer on the BC/GM/Justicar that is in the LRC so you can call down some support.
My two bits....
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I totally agree. I love infantry and believe that enough infantry can take down anything. Thanks for the opinions on the crusader. It'd be fun to try from time to time