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Has any one else noticed a general lack of any anti-armour in the army lists? In spite of anti-armour being seriously lacking it is relatively easy to upgrade your abilities in this area for little to no extra point cost.
Firstly Melta-Bombs. A must have if you think you facing any more then one or two viechles. For only a few pts you can make any of your greyknight squads a formidable anti-tank unit and cause consternation to your opponent.
The Eversor. A must have for any army in my opinion at only 95pts. Not only is he deadly in cc but as he is armed with meltabombs he can be highly effective at destroying tanks, espeically if he is deployed effectively.
Meltaguns can be very effective (esp. a Gun Servitor with a Mulit-Melta) however they are very short ranged and thus difficult to use (easy if your defending but when your actively tank hunting the chances they will ever get into the 6 inch range for the extra pentration is very unlikely).
I have adopted a relatively cheap and successful stratgery in this regards. I load a squad of IST (8-10 men) into a rhino (with extra armour and smoke launchers) and arm them with meltaguns and send them down the towards his tanks (or objective depending on the situation) as fast as possible, They have a reasonable chance at surviving the odd shot but dont expect the rhino to surve a barrage of rail guns. Even then most of your men will likely survive the crash and just keep going forward. You may get the odd tank kill but thats not the point at only 150pts you get a very phsycologically scary unit. That can a) be used to corral enemy towards you meltabomb infantry b) far more importantly attract firepower. While the shooting up your meltagun armed ISTs they are not shooting at your Dreads, which should be doing the real damage
Thunder hammers should in my opinion be a necessity for any GKT squad. To swap you NFW and SB for one cost nothing and while you lose initiative and a SB shot you squad becomes a seriously scary proposition to any piece of armour.
TLL with ML Dreads should be another necessity of any balanced greyknight army. They are the anti-tank unit available without splashing 250Pts on a LR. Best in multiples (tend to be picked off, therefore the more the merrier). I always have at least one even in a small army
Melta torpedos' are v. good when they hit, the problems is that they have a tendancy to go astray. I have only used them twice and both times they failed to kill a tank (though they did kill a few marines). If you looking for cheap and reliable anti-armour look elsewhere.
Psycannons are in respect of tank hunting are a waste of money. I will concede that if used in conjunction will deepstriking behind a tank they can be very effective but if you know your enemies taking lots of heavy support please for the love of all things good dont waste you pts on a purgation squad as the shots will normally bounce off a rhino and they wont even scracth a LR.
The Landraider is the best piece of anti-armour available to the GK however at 250 pts base cost its definitely to be considered a luxery. However with 3 TL Lascannon shots a turn (+1 thanks to the machine spirit) and its hard as nails and therefore should be worth considering. They are a firepower magnet, use the fact. With its huge AV the chances are even a railgun wont dent it and if the shooting at your LR (like in the case of a rhino full of meltagun wielding IST's) they are not shooting at your much weaker dreads. If I am fighting a Iron warriors army there is nothing I like more then to take a LR (transport for my GKT) and 3 TLL with ML Dreads. While they are busy trying to toast my LR my Dreads will literally tear apart the enemy armour. Please dont forget that inspite of its anti-tank ability it is a transport and therefore should be used as such.
Ironically its against your fellow GK's that LR work best. When I consider what I would use if i had to face the average army list on the site i would go tank heavy perhaps as many as 3LR + additional dreads in a 1500 pt army. I wont end up with many troops but who needs them if the average 1500 pt army contains 2 TLL Deads at best and the odd meltagun at best. After one turn of firing I would decimate these threats and then there would be no way to destory my landraiders effectively giving me free reign to indisciminately slaughter your forces. But just think of how effective a army would be if all your squads had meltabombs as standerd, I would be completey and utterly doomed
This is by no means a definitive guide (comments are welcomed), the aim is merely to make peole aware of this serious limitation and provide a cost effective framework for dealing with armoured threats. To often do I see a general list posted that has no anti-armour abilities whatsoever and it makes me think that there are a few out there who seemed to be blind to this issue.
I advise anyone thinking of making a tournament army to seriously consider giving all GKJ's MeltaBombs and if you having any GKT's, a Thunderhammer or giving your GM/BC Meltabombs. The total cost of this will only cost about the same as a single GK but will make every one of your GK squads anti-armour capable. On this note as your only real anti-armour unit a TLL with ML Dread is a must have, so if you intending to enter tournament take at least one.
On a unrelated but a very important point please give all your squad leaders frag grenades. For only 1 mesely point a piece it for each GKJ your squad wont face dire initiative problems if your enemy are entrenched (it is teribly embarrasing to lose initative to the tau as happened to me in an early battle). As cc is were GK excel, frag grenades (for which most races have to shed out a 1 pt per model in squad while GK only need to buy it for the squad leader) are a must have, if you cant find 1 pt a squad for them your frankly not looking hard enough.
(Editied at Lost Nemesis request, leaving only pts cost. If you think there are any further changes needed feel free to edit yourself or leave another message)
Last edited by Lost Nemesis; January 28th, 2007 at 02:57.
The eversor is only 95 points. Secondly yes we do lack anti armor. Third if your thinking about the Landraider I would tell you to take the Crusader for only 5pts more u get more guns and all can fire moving 6 inches. Third they can act as better transports with frag assault launchers. Dreads are an overall better investment and allows more points for grey knights. Meltabombs are good until u fight skimers then they are kind of even harder to hit because you need a 6
My Bad about eversor price. As to having a LRC, i would agree they make better transports but in relation to the anti-armour abilities the not half as good. All its weapons have a max range of 24" (Compared to 48" for a Lr) and only the 2L MulitiMelta can be considered an anti-tank weapon. Furthermore even though it has frag assualt launchers I would give my unit leader frag grenades simply because he may need them for a following combat and they only cost 1 pt.
Roehug, please edit out any stats/explicit statements of the rules. We are trying to do our best to avoid the GW legal department, and if anyone is reading this, chances are they know what the items/weapons do.
If you could do that, that'd be great, thanks.
Don't forget that it also has the twin linked assault cannons which, with rending, actually have a better chance of destroying armor than a lascannon.All its weapons have a max range of 24" (Compared to 48" for a Lr) and only the 2L MulitiMelta can be considered an anti-tank weapon.The frag launchers aren't a big deal until you're carrying a unit of termies (a bad idea, I know, please don't hit me) and they need to hit in initiative order.Furthermore even though it has frag assualt launchers I would give my unit leader frag grenades simply because he may need them for a following combat and they only cost 1 pt.
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Welcome to the DH! Always nice to have another warrior to add to the ranks fo the Emperor's Finest.
Just a helpful tip, since you're new here, though: Much of what you have on offer is sound advice. But it's also been tossed around this forum quite a bit. A simple search will have turned up a number of useful threads, plus there are the stickied threads at the top.
Seriously, though, good to have you here!
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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Roehug you make some good statements, but it is indeed too obvious to us who have played Grey Knights for a while. I do suppose we have to remember that Grey Knights are designed to fight Daemons and Chaos, not an Armored Company.:rolleyes:
I think with the problem with Grey Knights vs some other Marine armies is a lack of anti-tank guns like Lascannons and Meltaguns that our standard troop squads can carry. Imaging if our Grey Knights could field two Lascannons instead of two Psycannons?!
I completely agree with you about the Eversor:yes: . I don't leave home without mine for a take all comers list, either for tanks or monstrous creatures.
With inducted Imperial Guard we can field some better AT units. A squad of Imperial Guard with a Lascannon, Plasma Gun and a Vet sgt for leadership is a good addition to a Grey Knight army.
I think our Dreads are too expensive for what we get as an AT unit. I equip mine with Lascannon, Missile Launcher, EA and Smoke, but I would much rather have an Exorcist for the points. Even though an AC dread is capable of rending a tank, and statistically an Assault Cannon is better than a Lascannon at AV10 and AV14, it is quite a bit worse at AV11-AV13. The other problem we have with Dreads is that they take up a Heavy Support slot instead of an Elite one.
I don't look down on the Psycannons as an AT weapon as much as you however, especially for transports. I use Psycannons regularly even on AV12. The sheer number of shot you have can get you a lot of Glancing hit. Glancing hit are what you are going to get when it comes to transports.
The best way to fix the AT problem for Grey Knights is to use them as Allies for a base IG army. Triple Lascannon Squads with Sharpshooter and Cameoleline rock at killing tanks.:yes:
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I agree with the points that you made. Especially the point about the melta bombs and frags in all of the line squads. I never leave home without them.
Oh, and on a similar note, you mentioned giving the GK Heroes melta bombs. but alas they cant take them in Terminator armour.
It's worth a krak!
Another mistake on my part, my apologies again. I really should have reviewed what I had written. My bad, best go with a Thunderhammer when going with GKT's
Can't you guys just induct some Imperial Guard to get some heavies in there? You know, in the name on the Inquisition and all.
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