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First, if this has been done before, as i assume it will have been, delete the thread from existance!!! i didnt look very long for a similar topic, but i did look
neways, looking at the thread about Justicar w/ Psycannon, i thought it would be ok if the Justicar recieved terminator armour, and in turn, a psycannon. thats fair enough i reckon...
then i thought, what if i gave the Justicar Terminator Armour, and a Bolt Pistol?
the benefits of giving the Justicar just terminator armour would be ok, for just Xpts?
i play all PAGK Daemonhunters, with a single =I= and Assassin. i dont know how many times i needed to kill the last 2-3 odd enemies in HTH so i was free for my next phase of movement, but just lacked the 3 power weapon attacks to hit something more than once... and stayed in HTH, just to be shot in the opposing turn.
terminator armour, change the strom bolter for something bolt pistol...so 2 attacks standard, 1 for TArmour, 1 2xCCWs, maybe 1 for charging- thats a lot of NFW CC attacks- and doesnt affect the squads true grit (he aint IC...). the cost in points is nearly a whole grey knight, yet the benefits seem.... great! its an extra attack ontop of the usual 3, charge is better, survivability is increased (dice roll, maybe not considering wounds being allocated to different save models)
i remember seeing Marine vet sarges w/ combat shields n chaos asp champs with D Aura, to help the powerfist stay alive, it works sometimes..... so terminator armours Inv++ would help, but the 2+ with a 3+ squad would mean individual wounds wrapped around the units models to the Justicar... i 'spose just take the power weapon wounds from the squad and pray the Justicar doesnt roll a 1, eh?
also, this proposed Justicar is 10pts more than a regular Brother Captain, yet with an extra HTH attack. anything shot at the Justicar Terminator would take a PAGK, not exposing the terminator model- where as if you shoot a unit of terminators, well then a termie will go down....
the other thing is chasing someone down after winning combat and they break, with a Terminator model.....
does all this make sense, or is it just not worth the trouble?
LO RULESOriginally Posted by Jaffar_Hasad
Theres one big problem with the whole thing I'm afraid jONESIE, and its that a model in termy armour cannot use a bolt pistol. It doesn't have an asterisk next to it in the armoury so models in terminator armour with access to the armoury cannot take it.
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Because of the RAW rules, it is worth giving the Justicar Terminator Armour for the purpose that you specify, however, I advise against swapping out his storm bolter. You will make better use of it when you are outside a 12" range.
And JONESIE, I had trouble reading your post for lack of full stops.
It's worth a krak!
Yes, Darkreever is right. The only way you can get another attack is by adding something like a thunder hammer, power weapon or a powerfist that has an "*" next to it.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey
you only get up to 1 extra attack for CCWs, and it doesn't stack with charge bonus (ie you either get the assault bonus on the turn you assault or you don't get it at all but get the ccw bonus all the time). no point in swapping out storm bolter either because you're getting another attack from it as if you were using a pistol thanks to true grit.
so basically you can get up to ONE extra attack thanks to terminator armor for a total of 4 but that'd be it. i like the way you think though
No, you have it wrong INQ. Only when using true grit do you not get a bonus for charging, and true grit can only be used when you are in power armor. If you had two cc weapons and charged, you would get +2 attacks.
Also, he would have to swap out the storm bolter to get the 2 ccw attack because it specificly says that only PAGK have the true grit ability.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey
In the codex when it says that weapons must be bought seperately for terminator armor does that mean the justicar losese his NFW and his SB?
Firstly, there is almost zero actual benefit to giving the Justicar terminator armour. Whether the squad is being fired at or assaulted, majority armour save rules are in effect. Which means that if enough shots come your way, you will be forced to have your justicar make armour saves, and perhaps even additional saves thanks to the "saturation fire" rule on p. 22 of the BGB. Net result: no real benefit. And in close combat, the majority armour save means that you will almost never be in a situation where you will be allowed to make that 2+ save; you will be making 3+ saves. So your justicar could end up dying just from failing one too many 3+ saves. Net result: you've spent points and haven't improved anything.
Secondly, in the DH codex, taking terminator armour does not change the model's profile in any way, save for improving the armour save. Which means that a model -- including a justicar -- doesn't get any additional attacks. He's still an A2 model. (Note that for space marines, buying terminator armour automatically includes the cost of terminator honours, and it's the terminator honors that provides an additional attack. There is no way to buy terminator honours in the DH codex.)
Thirdly, adding terminator armour removes the Justicar's True Grit ability. Clearly stated in the Grey Knight special rules, only Grey Knights in power armour get True Grit. GKs in terminatour armour don't. Which means that you effectively spent points to remove an attack from your model.
In the end, I think it's obvious that buying terminator armour for Justicars gets you nowhere. It not ony provides no actual in-game benefits, it actually reduces the model's abilities. Keep your Justicars vanilla. If you want more GK power, you do it buy spending points on more GK models, not expensive upgrades.
I mean, all of this came about because you want to get your Justicar a psycannon, right? But if you do the math, you'll see that you could instead be buying two additional vanilla GK models. Two more full-strength GKs you could have had instead of all the upgrades you would have to buy to keep your singular justicar as effective as he was without the psycannon. It just doesn't make any sense. And if you really want lots of psycannons in GK squads, then take a purgation squad. That's more cost effective than upgrading a justicar, too.
Last edited by number6; February 4th, 2007 at 18:02.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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Sorry to cut this short, but the Justicar can't take terminator armor, only Inquisitors can. If you check the armory, the termie armor entry has a 1 next to it.
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Number6, if you looks in the codex, it actually does say that terminator armor increases the attacks by 1, so it does change their stats, just not on Inquisitors. It amounts to the same thing though.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey