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many people often complain about how rhino's are just rolling coffins. i have always been a fan of transports despite the danger. however, there is no denying that it is risky. some players try to provide protection by fielding lots of other rhino's or other vehicals, as well as smoke luanchers. unfortunately, this never seems to be enough, and it seems everytime a few rhino's go down( ), making the rhino rather inefficient.
yesterday i decided to try something different. usually when someone uses a rhino, thier goal is to get the rhino to the desired destination in the quickest/ safest way possible. despite this the risks are still present. one may use terrain to block line of sight but there will always be firing lanes the player can not avoid. that and some anti tank units could even be in an elevated possition(thereby seeing over the terrain being used as cover.).
so during the game i decided that instead of trying to get the rhinos to the enemy right away, i would hold them back as reinforcements(so to speak). i deployed my two rhinos behind a large piece of sight-blocking terrain and there they sat. two turns later, when things were getting heated, they rolled forth to deliver thier content. at that point, i had already taken out several tanks and other anti vehical units, so they were much safer. my enemy was already so overwelmed with fighting the rest of my army, he had forgotten about the rhinos and felt he had much more dangerous things to worry about.
needless to say, the 20 space marines that arrived straight into the heart of the battle unharmed was enought to turn the tide of the battle. if it wasn't for them my victory would have been a draw instead.
so has anyone used this tactic before or think this tactic has some potential?
That is not dead which may eternal lie,
for in strange aeons even death may die.
Alternative use for a rhino hmm....................a doorstop, a paperweight, a blunt object to throw at someone, the list is endless.
but the reinforcement idea sounds good, if there is plenty of cover, but In my opinion, it would have to be a large points game to be truly effective
I dunno, that's 400pts without upgrades invested there. I think I could handle the rest of your army while those hid. And I wouldn't be stupid enough to let them reach my lines in one piece (without firing on them).needless to say, the 20 space marines that arrived straight into the heart of the battle unharmed was enought to turn the tide of the battle. if it wasn't for them my victory would have been a draw instead.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
I think of you can hold 400+ points of your army (2 ten man squads plus 2 rhinos, without upgrades) back for 2 turns and still be winning, then you'll probably not have any problems with using rhinos...
Depending on the points value, I think holding back 2 entire squads is asking for trouble, especially because a mobile opponent (say, mechanized Tau) will still be able to shoot at (and, therefore, kill) them. A single squad is much less of a risk, but probably still enough to turn the tide. Drop pods are generally (IMO) a better way of deploying a 'reserve' (not the rule) force, for various reasons.
Personally, I have had some great results with rhinos as mobile LOS blockers, which is hardly sporting, but for tournie play it's fair enough, and had to be done to put a painted army together at the time.
Looking at the way you used your rhinos, I'd say that is a valid tactic, and may well work brilliantly with the cheaper rhinos available to the Dark Angels.
For regular marines, you might well do better with drop pods, as they have much more flexible 'deployment' options (ie: your rhinos can move 12", disembark 2", and fire 12", so you have a max 'range' of 26" from your starting point; but a drop pod can deploy anywhere on the table).
Of course, drop pods have thier own problems (reserves etc etc), but as you save points compared to a rhino, and keep the cargo completely safe, I think I know which I'd go for.
Bit rambling, but there we go. Not an entirely bad idea at all, but there are 'better' options available for your bucks, IMO.
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hmm..., come to think of it, i've never actually faced tau. however, the two guys(two different games) i used this tactic on were both eldar playing eldar, so they was mobile(maybe not as much as tau.) the skimmers are sometimes hard to deal with, and the wraithlord was annoying. however, i had trouble destroying the skimmers(darn holo field.) i could usually at least stun them. i think imobilized one, so i made it sage. as for wraithlords, i just deployed a good distance away. plus, my army is very 'in your face' so most of his infantry was somewhat pinned down(not with pinning check, i mean literally) in certain parts of the battlefield, so that decreased thier mobility.because a mobile opponent (say, mechanized Tau) will still be able to shoot at (and, therefore, kill) them.true in some respects. i've thought about using them, but several factors prevent me.Drop pods are generally (IMO) a better way of deploying a 'reserve'
1. i already have the rhinos, so i will use them.
2. i have no more room in my case. to cheap to buy a second one for one army:tongue:
3. i don't like the randomness of deepstriking, i don't like the idea of my men landing in the wrong possition, i feel like it gives me less control.
also, the difference is that with drop pods, your goal is just to get your troops close. my idea was to hold back, and rienforce your line with fresh troops when they are struggling. the rhinos give a little bit more presision and less randomness than the drop pods, so you can do this at a time and place of your choosing.i've done that a few times after droping off troops. its kind of cool as although you are greatly risking the rhino in some cases but since they are a transport(no victory points or scoring unit i believe) theres no reason not to.Personally, I have had some great results with rhinos as mobile LOS blockers,
i used it twice in 2000pt and it worked fine.
That is not dead which may eternal lie,
for in strange aeons even death may die.
I think that that "tactic" is situational. Say you have an oponent that is very mobile with a LOT of heavy firepower(eldar, mobile tau etc). I don't think you'll be prone to use the same tactic successfully.
Now, against say, another MEQ army with easily definable targets and usually coming in waves(assaulter up front, shooters in back) then its a better role.
I think Rhinos are fantatic for rolling cover. I've used them extensively before and after 4th edition(rhino rush and post) and I still love them. Now, without the assault out of rhinos, the smoke launcher and ex armor has become so much more important for its survivability.
4 rhinos pounding up the middle of the field, the two lead pop smoke first turn, and obscure the rear rhinos, turn 2 the rear rhinos take the lead the front ones follow, pop smoke( that's about 18 to 20 inches moved since turn 1, that should put you in prime positon to empty your contents and assault next turn(without moving the rhinos first of course) and then you MOVE your rhinos inbetween YOUR guys and his guns/incoming assaulters etc to cut them off and divide their forces.
I use this tactic with space wolves a LOT and it works wonders, even agianst tyranids.
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
I still think XYZ points for a mobile piece of terrain is handy.
Its like extra side/rear armor for my Vindicator half the time.
Even if I make my men hump it across the field on foot.
The proposed tactic seems as valid as any other, but as others have mentioned, it is indeed situation. For loyalist marines, it's hard to match the effectiveness of the drop pod; for traitors, however, this tactic is much more viable. For one thing, chaos doesn't have drop pods (alas), but additionally, this tactic could also be used in conjunction with daemons, that is, pulling a large number of your forces together behind cover, and then waiting for your enemy. With daemons in particular, it's quite easy to do, seeing as how daemons come onto the table through summoning, and could therefore remain off the table, pending the arrival of the icon nestled inside a transport. Again, even this idea is conditional, but has plenty of room for both entertainment and strategy.
Side: On the whole, I would have to say that rhinos are best used as cheap, mobile pieces of terrain. I prefer attaching them to a havoc squad and then using the rhino separately as a shield for berzerkers, statured princes, raptors, and especially fragile basilisks.
Hats off to you alexpape. Good out-of-the-box thinking.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
well, against feral orks that don't have squiggoths, rhinos work miracles. just create a rhino wall and pump the feral orks.
Alex, could you perhaps include some capitalisation in your posts? And perhaps some commas to? Thanks very much.