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Thread: Shotguns?

  1. #1
    Paintwater cup != tea mug catbarf's Avatar
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    Shotguns?

    I've got some extra bolters laying around, and I'm fancying converting some of my Veterans to carry shotguns. Is it worth it? In the previous version, their advantage was getting two shots on the move as opposed to the lasgun's 1- and now, the advantage is getting 2 shots and then a charge. I figure that no special weapons will be worth taking, so a unit of all-shotguns... Would two shots + 2 attacks each be good enough, or are Guard useless in melee no matter what?

    If you think Mathammer doesn't work and dice cannot be predicted, there's a whole field of mathematics called probability that would like to disagree.

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  3. #2
    durus Diggums Hammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    I've got some extra bolters laying around, and I'm fancying converting some of my Veterans to carry shotguns. Is it worth it? In the previous version, their advantage was getting two shots on the move as opposed to the lasgun's 1- and now, the advantage is getting 2 shots and then a charge. I figure that no special weapons will be worth taking, so a unit of all-shotguns... Would two shots + 2 attacks each be good enough, or are Guard useless in melee no matter what?
    If you want to make an IG counter assault squad, a Vet squad can be as good as it gets. Mount them in a Chimera so they can go where they need to. Give the Vet Sgt a Power Fist, give the squad two or three Flamers and then the rest of the squad Shotguns, Close Order Drill and Frag Grenades. You aren't going to beat up assault Termies, but as long as you get to shoot the squad should to fine.

    If you give the squad three Melta Guns, they will double as nice heavy tank busting unit.:shifty:
    "A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
    Sir Winston Churchil

  4. #3
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    I've got some extra bolters laying around, and I'm fancying converting some of my Veterans to carry shotguns. Is it worth it? In the previous version, their advantage was getting two shots on the move as opposed to the lasgun's 1- and now, the advantage is getting 2 shots and then a charge. I figure that no special weapons will be worth taking, so a unit of all-shotguns... Would two shots + 2 attacks each be good enough, or are Guard useless in melee no matter what?
    "Fire! Now over the top and charge those Hormagaunts!"

    *STABBYHACKHACKSTABBYEATMUNCHGULP*

    You would have been better off holding your ground and shooting them with lasguns as they came in because you strike first or simultaneously in cover (frag grenades etc.). Whereas if you charge you have to rely on a crappy Init. of 3 (which means you're going last against most enemies) and dieing.

    By the way, Lasguns get 2 shots on the move as do all rapidfire weapons.


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

  5. #4
    Set Sail and Conquer! Cadaver Junkie's Avatar
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    Whereas if you charge you have to rely on a crappy Init. of 3 (which means you're going last against most enemies) and dieing.
    Close order drill can fix this, if you are careful enough as to how you charge.

    By the way, Lasguns get 2 shots on the move as do all rapidfire weapons.
    He actually said this:

    In the previous version, their advantage was getting two shots on the move as opposed to the lasgun's 1- and now, the advantage is getting 2 shots and then a charge.
    Implying that the lasguns now get more than 1 shot on the move, altering the advantage difference of the shotguns compared to the flashlights.


    I like it. Sometimes, it is simply better to charge than be charged.
    And sometimes you wont actually have any cover available, or you just need to hold up the ravening hordes for a turn 12 inches forward whilst your other dudes move another 6 inches away. Things like this make a suicidal vet charge quite good!


    Also, it would look pretty sweet, and I dont see shotgun toting guardsmen often enough (or ever, for that matter). So if you like the idea, do it!
    "Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"

    Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.

  6. #5
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
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    shotguns are good on vets for all the wrong reasons. they look cool (good reason but if you want to win then not), it means if youve given the sarge a powerfist and there are meltas you can do some charging and firing (as has already been said) its always fun but ironically vets are the worst squad in combat due to the doctrines not applying to them. to be honest it doesnt make a huge amount of difference all it means is you can shoot with the vets then decide on a suicide assault after the shooting is all finished rather than worrying about their lasguns. Ive modelled the vets in one of my armies with shotguns and they look damn cool IMO. plus you say you have spare boltguns well put them on your officers that are standing around at their cost they are a steal. convert lasrifles into shotguns itll be easier anyway (looks good if you can find catachan ones aswel.

    hope that helps

    A

    (look me up on photobucket names still Commisarlestat and have a gander at the vets in the 7th comitatense to help you decide)

  7. #6
    Dawn Under Heaven Triumph Of Man's Avatar
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    Close order drill can fix this, if you are careful enough as to how you charge.
    Veterans cannot benefit from COD.

    Also, it would look pretty sweet, and I dont see shotgun toting guardsmen often enough (or ever, for that matter). So if you like the idea, do it!
    Be aware it's not one of the most tactically advantageous things to do however. Especially since you'd have to forgo firing the plasmagun/heavy weapon that's most likely in the unit.

    I like it. Sometimes, it is simply better to charge than be charged.
    And sometimes you wont actually have any cover available, or you just need to hold up the ravening hordes for a turn 12 inches forward whilst your other dudes move another 6 inches away. Things like this make a suicidal vet charge quite good!
    The amount of times I have deployed a valuable firebase or would suggest deploying a valuable firebase such as Veterans out in the open? It's equal to the amount of times I've been laid, 0.

    And really you should do it the other way around, your other crappy dudes hold the enemy up while the expensive and valuable Veterans sneak away to another position. Or better yet, hold their ground and rapidfire the crap out of the enemy again when they break out of assault on their turn.


    Karmoon
    ... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..

  8. #7
    Senior Member Dr. Paris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triumph Of Man View Post
    The amount of times I have deployed a valuable firebase or would suggest deploying a valuable firebase such as Veterans out in the open? It's equal to the amount of times I've been laid, 0. .
    LOL!

    I tend to agree. Vets with shotties sounds more like a "just for fun" or a "in this one unique case it would..." rather than a reliable tactical option. I believe, vets cost the same as a rough rider (don't have my book in fron of me though), and that is a far better assualting unit with much better resources to mount a counter charge. Lances are longer than claws, and guard aren't useless in combat, it's just more of a tool rather than a life style (i.e. world eaters, nids, etc.)

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    Set Sail and Conquer! Cadaver Junkie's Avatar
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    The amount of times I have deployed a valuable firebase or would suggest deploying a valuable firebase such as Veterans out in the open? It's equal to the amount of times I've been laid, 0.
    Ha, yeah nice

    Although sometimes it just happens, in large point value games on medium sized tables, often everything is in the open to something, regardless of how hard you try to stop it. I was talking about charging more than anything else here though, so cover (in your control) has less of an impact anyway.

    And really you should do it the other way around, your other crappy dudes hold the enemy up while the expensive and valuable Veterans sneak away to another position. Or better yet, hold their ground and rapidfire the crap out of the enemy again when they break out of assault on their turn.

    But seriously, its not always a really bad plan - i have, quite effectively, used vets as an early horde stopping point before, the infiltration skill lets you easily set them up a little in front of your army, and thus they are good against first or second turn charges that would've happened anyway.

    Sure, they're a little more expensive than your average guardsmen, but that uber shooting vet squad of death is only really expensive if you actually MAKE them an uber shooting squad of death.

    On the other hand, you may feel that setting up closer to a charging horde is a bad idea, and most often I would agree - it all depends on your current gameplan.


    Veterans cannot benefit from COD.
    Too true, my bad.
    "Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"

    Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.

  10. #9
    Mathhammer wielder! Prittstift's Avatar
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    Ahhh, the good ol' Shotties debate. My 2 cents.

    I don't like Shotties on IG, it goes againt every thing they stand for, which is stand an shoot. Generally if Guardsmen get into CC they get wasted by pretty much everything except Tau. This means that the assault move is wasted. Furthermore, they have strength 3 which means you have to roll 5+ which is exactly the same as a Lasgun, except you have 12" range. The only use it has is against Tau, who you want to charge anyway. Shoot one or two and than beat them up. Otherwise I say no.

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    Paintwater cup != tea mug catbarf's Avatar
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    Roll 5+? What do you mean? They hit on a 3+ and are S3.
    If you think Mathammer doesn't work and dice cannot be predicted, there's a whole field of mathematics called probability that would like to disagree.

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