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Just curious, which Assassin is the best for it's points? Just had a proxy game against myself yesterday, it was my first DH game (OK, so maybe it doesn't count, but still...), and a Vindicare Assassin was present. It did pretty badly, but if he got better rolls, he could have destroyed both a War Walker and a Wraithlord.
So, which one is best for it's points?
One final question, how often do you use Death Cult Assassins and how well do they serve you?
Vindicares are pretty cool, but they can only kill one unit each turn max, assuming you hit and wound.
Culexus are kind of pointless (even in battles against Eldar you will want to take another assassin). In short, I don't like them.
Eversors are the classic "one-man armies" of the assassins. Lots of attacks, plus meltdown and an extended assault range = PEOPLE DIE.
The Callidus is my personal favorite, though. Besides her suped up flamer, Word in Your Ear, C'tan blade, etc, her ability to deploy anywhere on the table and keep units tied up with her jumpback (while you shoot them in between combats) makes her the fluffiest (IMHO) and most single unit available to the Daemonhunters. Ever have trouble against Tau? How about Tau with no more broadsides on turn 2 and a series of sweeping advances the following turns? See what I mean?
Pointswise, though... they're all so similar in points values you should just take whichever one would be the most useful.
you'll fing the eversor is most favoured and used most regularly, followed closely by the callidus. i think the poll will turn out the same way
EDIT: WOW, im a little suprised by the poll..... i voted on the Eversor
before i go on, just wanna say that an assassins job is to 'dent' the enemy. although a callidus takes the cake in reguard to actually assassinating a HQ or single model, whereas the evesor is better off to take on a unit or high-toughness creature, like carnifex or wraithlord, where his high attacks/charge and neurogauntlet work best.
Eversor is cheapest, can damage tanks, and (potentially) a horrendus amount of attacks, as stated above. one man army is an understatement. long charge distance, can hurt anything in the game.....drug fuelled, what else do you want in an assassin? he would be perfect if he didnt count as a unit by himself, but he is still a force to be reckoned with.
many times he has thwarted a first turn assault against me, usually by infiltrating raptors (sometimes with attached lord). always expect him to die, but try get the most out of him. in terms of points investment, he is king. just dont expect him to take on a whole unit by himself (although he can do severe damage on the charge, and some more when he dies), and dont expect him to go toe-to-toe with every character in the game.
*note- tau have the potential to shoot high Str missles without LOS. considering that those missles are popular with tau players, and they can can move/shoot/move with jet packs, i would revert to the callidus to ensure you hit, and when you do, it really, really hurts*
Callidus can affect the first shooting phase by fiddling with deployment. someone places a tank or ordanance in LOS of something valuable, you can change the situation.
ignoring invulnerables and arriving anywhere you want means she hits hard- usually. just remember it is better to try hurt the target before recklessly throwing the callidus at it. too many times i have seen her arrive, do some damage, and the player is disappointed when she 'dents' the target and doesnt kill it. still, she is a very potent model to have
Last, the Vindicare- best against those armies that have squad leaders to maximis the units potential, like chaos, orks, marines, and tau. it allows you to remove the pwoer weapons, and HTH damage dealers. can slao bump down the units Ld when the sargeant dies. i wouldnt field them against anthing else, because...... i dont see the benefits of him. he doesnt make his points back easily, but he does affect the flow of the game if you take away the HTH damage dealers- then there isnt any power weapons to oppose your NFW, eh? quite delicious- then lay the smackdown with Str6
just dont waste shots trying to kill a daemon prince on turn one. if the prince is hurt already, then fair enough (remember you can shoot into HTH if you have LOS to the target). but until this time, kill powerfist models, power weapons, lascannon/melta troops threatening your dreads etc. if a SM tactical squad wants to sit in their deployment zone and shoot heavy weapons, then kill the heavy weapon- you effectivly take the unit out of the game until they footslog closer to you (and then shoot them some more ) if the unit is a devestator unit with 3 lascannons and a plasma cannon, then take the plasma out, and proceed to take out the Lascannons. this could take the unit under half strength, and it will sit there doin nothing.
i think Vindicare is a wise mans choice of assassin. and deployment is key to his use.:yes:
i dont want to mention the culexus, because he is too specialised. doesnt do much in HTH, and only shoots 12". i have heard of people haveing psykers in their army close to the assassin (justicars, Grey Knight Termies, IGuard sanctioned psyker etc) and letting loose with a crazy amount of BS 5 AP3 shots from his headgear, but overall, unless you face Eldar or Nids, is a waste. i dont like him, but i can see where he would come in handy (remember Nids have synapse and lots of other psyker stuff).
pity i dony like him either because the model is sick, same with the fluff. oh well
in conclusion, i would go for the Eversor, mainly because i need to extra anti-armour and troop suppression, but would use the callidus against those that use tau or heavily-tooled characters. even so, an assassin isnt built to take on the world by himself, and must be supported by another unit. that is where the strength lies, not for assassins, but for winning Warhammer in general. but even more so for assassins, because they are a little bit fragile:cry:
i have never used Death Cult assassins. i can see they are cheaper, and having multiple means their strength is seperated- which could be used to your advantage.
actually, i may have to try them. mabey running them along with some footslogging Grey Knights would work- they need the extra power weapon attacks (even though they are Str 6).
it could help shift the focus of that unit champion and where he throws his all-important power weapon/fist, along the lines of
"Crap, the assassin is killing my men... but so are those strong grey knights- but the assassin ignore armour saves, whilst my precious marines get 3+ against the knights......" i really should try that out....
anyways, cheers if you read all this, and hopfully i have saved someone else's time by writing all this (repeated and obvious) information:w00t:
goodluck with you assinations
LO RULESOriginally Posted by Jaffar_Hasad
You can't go wrong with either the Callidus or Eversor. FYI: I voted Eversor purely because I tend to use him more often, not because I actually think he's "better" than the Callidus.
Which is kind of the point. Niether Callidus nor Eversor are better in any way for they serve two entirely different purposes. The Eversor is a nasty sledgehammer while the Callidus is a delicate scalpel. Both can damage your opponent severely, so much so that the assassin alone can swing a battle your way. But they must be used in entirely different ways. The Eversor is butt-stupid. Just aim and shoot; you'll get results. The Callidus, however, is the Thinking General's assassin. She must be used with care and much forethought. But, when employed properly, she's every bit as deadly as the Eversor even though she can never match his kill rate.
The other two officio operatives aren't even worth mentioning. They're jokes. The Vindicare is generally considered to be the "coolest" assassin, but he's so bloody useless. And, practically speaking, there is literally nothing he can do that can't be accomplished by either the Eversor or the Callidus. Odds are that the Vindicare will cause about 3 wounds per game. The only reason you'd care about that is if there are three very specific wounds that need to be eliminated (e.g., Eldar aspect warrior Exarchs). Well, why couldn't you just point the Eversor at that squad and watch him kill out his kill zone? Just make sure that the Exarch is in the kill zone and watch it die. Same thing with the Callidus. Just pop her up right in front of that thing, and make sure it's in her kill zone ... ZAP, dead. And then you can continue to get good performance out of the assassins after that operation is done. The same can't be said of the Vindicare. He's a waste of points.
But the worst waste of points is definitely the Culexus. He's way too specialized and way too short-ranged to be anything but a drag on your tactics if you attempt to get good performance out of him against any enemy except Eldar, or perhaps 'nids. Don't ever bother with this guy except for a fun and friendly game against one of those two specific opponents. But I wouldn't even bother buying the model for such limited utility. Just pretend the Eversor or Callidus model you have is the Culexus. Don't bother with this guy.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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First of all, I voted Eversor, and here's why. Just to get it out of the way, I don't want to say the Culexus is bad, just that it's too situational (this is a word that i may or may not have made up, by which I mean he's awesome when you're against the right army, but you won't be against the right army the majority of your battles). On to the others, I think the Vindicare just doesn't get enough shots off to be worthwhile over the other assassins. Obviously if you get 6 shots off each turn and each one kills a sergeant or a heavy weapon or whatever he'll make up him points, but I think the other assassins can make up their points much more effectively, because they infiltrate or deploy from reserves so you can put them right next to (for example) a Dev squad (or the equivalent) and take out the entire thing in one turn.
This brings it down to the Callidus versus the Eversor at least in my mind (I also play Sisters, so there is a much greater need of combat ability to me than perhaps to you) and althought he Callidus is easily better (at least in most people's opinion; I would even argue that the Eversor can be better if you evaluate thm at the same point value because of his larger number of attacks, but that's just me and obviously the Neural Shredder brings in a whole new dynamic) I decide this quite easily by pointing to the fact that, for the points values, you can play either a Callidus or an Eversor and a Death Cult -15 points, and I think that that differential is just too great for me to ignore.
Also, two more pretty random notes of why I don't like the Callidus:
1. She doesn't have any defesive upgrades on top of the Eversor so she dies the same speed and you lose more points
2. She deploys in reserves, which although can save her if you don't go first, it also means that she has one fweer turn to make up her points and she has more points to make up to begin with.
3. She has zero anti-tank, whereas I took down my friend's Hammerhead with my Eversor :w00t:
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I voted for the Eversor for the points, but if I had an IG army I would have voted for the Callidus.
I won't elaberate much on what has already been said except:
1> The Callidus' main issue is that she comes in on a reserves roll. This is fine if she comes in on turn two, but not if she comes in on four or five! She is best used with an IG vehicle upgrade called "Improved Comms" which lets you re-roll failed reserve rolls. As a matter of fact she would be my favorite if she always came in on turn two, but she is just a bit too random for a pure DH/WH list. Her benefit to shooty armies like IG is mutliplied, as they have a tough time getting into enemy lines. She has no such trouble!:ninja:
2> The anti-vehicle aspect of an Eversor is much overlooked. He can be placed 18" away from an enemy quarter, and make the enemy change his/her tactics and battle plans because of his assault range and that he can damage any type of unit. He can do extreme damage to a Squad of Assault Marine, a Landraider or a Carnifex. He really is a versatile little bugger!!:w00t:
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about the eversor, i have a question;
with the charging attacks thing, can u have a maximum of 9 attacks? and if so, are all these with the power weapon?, also it says that the needle pistol has an armour penetration of D6 against vehicles, do you have to add this value to something? because no veichle has an amour value of 6.
(btw im kind of a noob in the whole 40k thing, ive been playin for a while but havent got the rulebook yet and so dont know most of the rules - so plz dnt be too harsh)
I believe he can get 10 attacks. Rolling a 6 for the extra attacks and using a Bolt Pistol as a second hand weapon. And yes, they are all power weapon attacks. Pretty cool, eh?
Thanks for the help guys, posts that long with that much assistance are pretty good.:yes:.
BTW, just had a thought for those who play DE. A Vindicare can choose who dies in the unit. So, if you use the 2+ wound roll and target a Beastmaster, that could be a game winner as the Warp beasts turn on their own army, plus, they can negate that 2+ save from the Shadow Field.
It was a tough decision, but I had to go with the kamikaze over the human ball of clay
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Vindicare. allow me to explain.
In raw killing power, the vindicare is no match for the celexus or eversor, mainly because he is a defensive unit. His only job is to pick out the elements of a unit that make it particularly dangerous. You can't really measure how efficient he is based on what he kills, but rather what he saves.
Is that marked chaos biker about to drop a daemonnette bomb on you? bang. no more summoning, 1 saved grey knight squad.
is that hidden powerfist about to make mincemeat of your dreadnought? bang. Dreadnought 1, tactical squad 0.
Sure, that eversor could have probably neutralized that tactical squad by himself, but it would take him several turns. the vindicare, along with some coordination, did the same job much quicker.
Sure, in the end, the vindicare has on average a less than 1/2 chance to kill his intended target, but that's what special rounds are for.