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Best way to defeat IG with IG?
This is actually a simpler question than one might think.
How you defeat them is the same as how you defeat any other army. Take lots of tanks, those blast templates can wipe out entire squads at a time. Three standar Leman Russ battle Tanks should be enough large blasts to plow through whatever they can mass up.
Now, your opponent may also load up on armor, so what you need to do is take some DSing Vets or Stormtroopers with meltas to try and take out one or two of the tanks before dying.
Removed some random commas O_o
wow, the sheer possibilities are staggering! ill try be brief
well, first ill point out some things that generally would be seen...
lots of armour on the board
crapload of models, lots of little units around everywhere.
crap armour saves.
any HTH would be on nearly equal terms.
any misslelaunchers not shooting armour is raping infantry with frag template.
the guard army that is more efficient (ie quicker) at destroying the opponents armour will have a better chance to dominate later in the game. guard infantry is for killing infantry. if the guard must use infantry special weapons to kill tanks, the other 80% of the units firepower is wasted. utilize this.
for this very reason, i advise misslelaunchers. frag is only AP6, but you can still give vet sarg bolt guns. leave the heavy bolter at home.
i love the grenade launcher. it could help against vehicles, but is better to just spam on the infantry. weak, but the more models you hit, the more 5+ saves that will be failed. quantity over quality, IMO.
now, i shouldnt say to just use misslaunchers, a lascannon will go a long way to help cracking the higher AV's. but missle launchers are the way to go. besides, if you have a suicidal deep striking melta squad, you could well take out a Leman Russ without wasting firepower.
ontop of the missle launcher would be ordanance (crack open enemy vehicles, template infantry) and hell hounds. hellhounds are especially nasty bolter weapon have a decent amount of shots, and AP will creme the guards flak armour. take bolter weaponry, i recommend bolters for vet sarges.
cheap HQ platoons. guard can take a godly amount of weaponry. they can pick on nearly any unit they like. guard will use "LD bubbles" so limit this weakness by decreasing your dependance on Command Squad Leadership.
limit their wargear, and either go a master vox for all-round high Ld (which can be pricey, depending on how many units you have to take normal squad voxes) or give every unit a vet sarg. i prefer the vet sarg. combined with CoDrill, you have a half decent Ld and wont require vox.
if you also take lots of template weapons, you may even be able to cause so many wounds that any templates htting you in CoD wont have nearly the same effect as the amount you throw back. this isnt recommended if looking at a an opposing hellhound, but great for mid-game when you expect the majority of opposing armour to be silenced, and any squad you have that isnt dead can stay in CoD more comfortably
for doctrines, Close Order Drill will change the averagness of your infantry, and give you an edge in combat. i highly recommend it for use against any opponent, especially other guard. not that i can see too much HTH goin down, but the increased Ld would be enough to take it, let alone the I increase- and it's free!
Iron Discipline will help keep your infantry (and upgraded weapons) on the table. very important, especially in the beginning stages of the game where you'll recieve lots of firepower and ordanance/templates, until those armour threats can be silenced/detsroyed.
ratlings... i dunno. usually i say take 'em against anything, but for guard, im not sure- if the opponent uses "Ld bubble", then pinning these command squads can stall forward movement, or have enemy infantry risk leaving the area and not recieving the Ld bonus.
ratlings can also be good to hit those ogryns/roughriders, those type of units will cause major problems due to resilience/speed. ratlings offer a nice, constant flow of damage to a select unit each turn. and guard Ld makes them vulnerable to pinning. they're cheap, i myself would use them, if using other things i have already suggested above.
ok, ill leave it at that for now and give someone else a chance....
hope i havent been too obvious in what i have wrote haha
first off im going to have to disagree completely about missile launcjers. especially if your opponent knows your are going template heavy. they cost more than a heavy bolter and on average (against a non close order unit) will hit 2men, in the open teyd still get an armour save and the frag strength is lower. so in effect your are paying more for a one shot weapon wit worse stats. missiles are anti tank only ever fire them at infantry if thats your only target or there is a chance of getting 4-5 hits.
As for weapons , flamers. these are the complete bane of any guard army, they ignore all saves whenever and wherever! they wipe out whole units obsenly quickly so the following units wil be good,
hellhound (most scary flamer ever alos if you place the template correctly when next to a low armour tank you can take it out too)
heavy flamer sentinels. hide and run tactics or drop them in, guard special or heavy weaponary is needed to kill them thus drawing a lot of fire, unlike marines the lasrifle cnat hurt any vehicles.
flamer command in chimera. against guard the chimera doesnt even need heavy flamers! though give the command close order drill and a power weapon. once you have flammed if you survive you can flame and assault. or get out hide then flame and assault, guard assault units are good against guard.
As for other weapons,
heavy bolter, the greatest antihorde weapon ever, dont put these in support squads as they will die too quickly puthem in line squads.
grenade launchers, like plasma against a guard army, they arent great but they are cheap and versatile (can pop low tank armour such as chimeras and sentinels) they also wont kill you.
meltas, in vet squads dropping against tanks, nuff said.
multilasers, aginst tanks dropping in on sentinels. these are best used against transports first even if you lose the heavy bolter shots on a chimera.
pintle mounts, where possible take pintle mounts they add to weight of shots, stormbolters are amazing against guard.
ordnance and mortars, big or little template, ans pinning. mortars are good only in quantity, but bassies are amazing.
normal russ is ok but an exterminator is better, the mount of shots you can fire is unbelieveable, couple this with them firing on the move and not losing any firepower they are a must.
assault his units by playing agressively. charge up with commands that are packed with cheap special weapons, the odd power weapon commisar or priest doesnt go amiss, then charge them in, this will make a mess of his lines, the chimeras can park in front of his heavy weapons, it doesnt matter if they die he then has to waste time moving is decent weapons. rough riders are good and dont even need hunting lances, its a bonus as it allows you to hit first if he is in close order, howeve he is likely to be in cover so frag grenades can be a good purchase.
these guys need to hide form heavy bolters and autocannons however get them in close and rapid fire those hellguns, special weapons arent even needed saving more points.
Vets, always useful with meltas as stated above.
conscripts arent as good against guard. the numbers arent so overwhelming and they cna be taken down by a couple of the nuerous heavy weapons guard have.
Overall lots and lots of infantry backed up with assaulty commands melta vets exterminators hellhounds and sentinels.
hope that helps
PS cud you put up your prospective amry list in the army list area with a bit saying its for against guard and we could tweak the actual list.
Heavy bolters for troops, missile launchers for troops and tanks as well, lascannons becasue there will be tanks in there, maybe even a small mortar section for the hell of pinnning.
Flamers for troops and grenade launchers, maybe an odd plasma or two.
Tanks are a must for going against IG, hellhounds as well for the roasting of guardsmen, maybe if you want to a basilisk.
Take doctrines like Vets and CoD. Make a few cheapy HQ squads full of flamers or ccw and laspistol, officers should have power weapons.
Veteran squads with a heavy bolter and a few grenade launchers are a must, maybe make one with a chimera and flamers.
Maybe even take a few vet sgts in your line squads, give them bolters amybe as well, only a small point they are.
Conscripts or roough riders as well. Conscripts make a nice speed bump, and rough riders make a nice counter charge unit.
Not for pinning, but to eliminate Command Squads. IG are the only army I'd ever recomend to use mortars against, but couple a unit of them with a basilisk and you can eliminate the enemy command structures in short order, which will see them fleeing hopefully.Heavy bolters for troops, missile launchers for troops and tanks as well, lascannons becasue there will be tanks in there, maybe even a small mortar section for the hell of pinnning.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
If i had to beat another guard army this is what i would take. 3 basalisks, 3 hellhounds, and then as much infantry as i could possibly fit into it and shove and shove as many heavy bolters and lascannons as i could give to them. I wouldnt even bother with special weapons, except in suicide drop trooping squads. Your lascannons/basalisks take out their tanks. Your heavy bolters/hellhounds/basalisks handle infantry. And of course the deepstriking command squad or 2 with 4 flamers is a must =). Depending on the armies involved...it is most likely gonna come down to who gets first turn.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.
and im sure you could manage to hit more than 2 models with a blast template if not, then you should seriously consider ogryns to take advantage of the 'max-coherency spread-outness' tactic hehe
I've yet to meat a player worth his salt that bunches troops against IG, considering how many template weapons we pack, it's just not advisable.and im sure you could manage to hit more than 2 models with a blast template if not, then you should seriously consider ogryns to take advantage of the 'max-coherency spread-outness' tactic hehe
Even if you hit one model and two partials, that will only net you an average of two hits.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
Hellhounds are obvious for me as they are much more accurate than pie plates and make Cameleolene even useless!
The less obvious, but still very effective is adding PAGKs to the mix. 24" storm bolter range drops Guardsmen like flies. Grey Knights Shrouding also hinders the Guardsmen from being able to shoot back! Don't try this tactic though against a three pie plate IG army though. Ordnance loves to kill 25pt marines!:w00t:
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil