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After 11 games, I'm 6 wins, 2 draws, and 3 losses. Admittedly, 2 or 3 of the lists weren't what I would call competitive. I was just trying out a few things here and there.
My first 5 games were 4 wins and a loss. In those I used either pure DH or DH with a platoon of IG allies (PG/ML or LG, 25 guys total).
The next six used a minimum of 2 IG squads, and either a pair of LC sentinels or a LR, or both. Troops were usually a platoon and an AF squad. Once I went with 2 platoons.
Anyhow, once I started using enough guard to start making use of the FA/HVY support options, my win/draw/loss rate waivered.
For long range heavy anti-armor, I changed things up abit. I started taking 2 LC/EA dreads and a platoon of IG with PG/ML. Worked out okay.
here's the problem. I prefer to play 'take all comers' lists, and I've been unable to find anything that will work consistently. Generally speaking, despite using the guard platoon and 2 dreads, I tend to walk all over hordes or any army that has to come to me, and either loose or draw to more shooty opponents.
So my thinking has been to cease making take all comers lists and just build lists on the spot. Not too sporting, even though most of my opponents prefer to play tailored lists against me and anyone else they play.
How about a guard army that's built to 'compel' my opponent to come to me. I'm considering bringing in a basilisk, minimal HQ with maybe a LC sentinel squadron attached, grenadiers, and some hardened vets. The HQ would be a drop HQ with MG, to keep it efficient. the grenadiers and H-vets would have teleport homers, to help DS'ing FAGK's and/or termies make it down. Overall, the use of a base guard list would just be to take advantage of doctrines and utilize guard units more efficiently than inducted guard allies permit. This is probably the only way I can build 'take all comers' lists that aren't hit or miss.
Has anyone tried this/had success with it?
Lastly, in 2000, I would probably have around 1000 points of DH codex stuff, not including the grenadiers. It will still look like a DH army, except for maybe 1 or 2 units on the board--and doctrines/infiltrators....
Thanks for any tips.
Wow....that was hard to read. Im not even sure i got the first half of the post. (sorry, i suck with abreviations). What i did understand is, you want the army to come to you right? That shouldnt be very hard. There arent many armies that people use that focus only on shooting (Tau, Eldar, guard are exceptions) Usually, you will face an opponent whose whole statagy is to ocome at you fast (Rhino rush anyone?) If your crazy, you can even go totally opposite, and bring the fight to them. Hardened vets with infiltrate should do the trick. I find one should never wait for the coming attack, for it gives the opponent to pick and choose what he/she wants to fight on their own terms.
"This sure ain't no pansy Eldar Armor, Son"
185th Cadian Armored Div.
"One Shot, One Kill"
Western Border Patrol of Athel Loren
Technically Grey Knights should be able to outshoot Tau's basic troop Firewarriors. Just carry a lot of psycannons and you'll find yourself killing wholes squads with the ap 4 goodness . (You wanted to be more shooty right?)
Anyways, thats all i can really say...i havent really played against guard so i dont know. Im just one of those Grey Knights purists.
If you wanted to take an "all comers list" why not try the ol' Sisters of battle eh?
I have spent the last two years trying to "perfect" such a list. I love to play my pure Grey Knight lists, but I think the most effective (to win!:shifty: ) is a combination list of a base IG list with plenty of Grey Knight support.
The best list so far that I have come up with looks something this, and needs to be played on a 4 x 6 board, 4 x 4 is too small for the Bassies:
HQ: JO+Mortar+Iron Discipline+Veteran with Standard. (They just provide leadership for the lascannon squads)
One or two Lascannon support squads with Cameleolene and Sharpshooters. (Tank and MC busting units)
Elites: I try and take one squad of Veterans with a Lascannon and two or three Plasma guns. (Nothing like a BS4 infiltrating Lascannon!)
Troops: two Grendadier Squads of 10 with two Plasma Guns each. For one of the Squads I take a Chimera (for a Basilisk blocker).
One squad of PAGKs with two Psycannons, usually 6 - 8 in number.
Fast Attack: FAGKs with two Psycannons, same as PAGK squad. (I usually just set these up last, but I can teleport them if necessary)
Heavy Support: (The key to it all ).
2 x Basilisks with Indirect Fire and one with Improved Comms (for tourneys and escallation games).
1 x Leman Russ with triple Heavy Bolters.
My list is usually around 1750pts.
Set up is crucial for this list. I park by Bassies in the each far corner of the long edges, or in the far corner in table quarter mission. I put the Leman Russ in front of one and the Chimera in front of the other Bassie if I have to, so I block LOS from the enemy. By placing the Basilisks in the far corners, the whole board is open to indirect fire from at least on of them.:w00t: I usually put one Grenadier Squad close to each Bassie as well as one Grey Knight unit. That way if someone wants to come in on a Bassie they will pay a price.
The Bassies indirect fire forced the enemy to come out and try and take them out, where a Leman Russ, Plasma Guns, and two shoot squads of Grey Knights are waiting for them.
This list trys to take the best of both lists and put them together, and has lost only once to a hoard IG list, (I killed more of him, but he had more objective points) and tied an armoured company list).
I hope this list insipres you to make it better! (just let me know how too, LOL)
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
hmm. Indeed sisters are good at all points yes, but with DH and IG you should be able to as well.
For an example:
2 guard troops (imao the cheapest one that has a small bit of tooling enuf to make it worth it's points, so guess standard guard units)
in fast attack 2 to 3 rough rider units, they seriously rule, I tend to combine them with 1 unit serpahim as well, to keep it more versatile, but that's just me.
HS, take the LMR maybe with sum DH back up.
and indeed we can outshot tau rather easy, it's prolly gonna be a close call, but tau's light infantry doesn't stand a chance against psycannons and their tanks go down as well, I know the hammers are hard to take down, but make a line of psycannons and then at elast one will be able to hit the back at elast once during game. LR's also work well vs hammers, the double twin lac just hurts, tho mine usually stuns them and then they stun him an other turn, never saw the LR die tho.
shooting list vs eldar also works decently well, and against IG it's just fun and it also works.
'Thou shalt not refer to the Adeptus Soritas as "Bolter Bitches" nor shalt thou go anywhere near our sisters during the time of the "Red Rage," lest thou wishes to be the first human to enter orbit without the aid of a shuttle.'
My 2000 list is still coming together, but it looks something like this:
2 grenadiers 10 man squads. PG/MG VS with PP/Tel HOmer/PW/MB
2 PAGK 10 man squads. 2 PC's
950 or so points
1 FAGK 10 man squad. 1 incinerator.
285 or so points
1 Bassie with indirect
I was considering 2, but I reasoned I would not be able to put them both in cover, where they belong, regularly.
JO, medic, standard, PG cameoline
2 3-base ML HW teams cameoline/sharpshooter
1 3-base AC HW team cameoline/sharpshooter
2 LC sentinels
I've got a few point left over. Dunno what to do with them. Should be about 220 points or so left over.
I might opt for a hardened veteran squad, or perhaps more heavy support. Looking at your list, maybe heavy support.
For an IG base list, equipping the FAGK with psycannons might be better. I can always add a DS'ing inquisitor with terminator armor/incinerator. doing this would leave me with 120 points, almost enough for a second bassie. To add an infiltrating tel-homer equipped squad, possibly drop the AC HW team and add a h-veteran squad. dunno. Still thinking about it, but your write-up has helped me solidify a few ideas. Thanks.
Last edited by OverchargeThis!; March 28th, 2007 at 03:53.
Been working on my IG/DH list for a little while now, and so far have had great success with it. Even won a local tourney with it. The great thing about the DH is that they are everything that IG isn't. Pricey, good in cc (IG have thier exceptions...Ogryns anyone), and with exception of grenadiers, rather more assault based. The guard fills in the gaps with loads of firepower, and loads of men. So far my lists have generally consisted of either a demolisher or regular LR with Heavy bolters all around. The basilisk sometimes if I have a big enough table to deploy it effectively. A couple platoons of guard with COD to ensure that even when cc comes, they have a little something going for them. I also use these squads for the most part to stick heavy weapons in so that they have lots of wounds. Next is a HQ with voxes all around, and a commissar to make sure nobody gets to thinking of running away or shooting the nearest target if thats not what I want them to shoot.
Now, for anti-tank firepower I use a couple of anti-tank squads with lots of LC/ML attached to the HQ. This frees me up from having to take heavy weapons platoons as a doctrine. Now that I have a solid firebase, I begin to put in the DH, mainly a couple squads of GK to either act as counter assault, or if the enemy really doesn't look like its going to move, I will go after them. Inquisitorial stormies work well as front liners to absorb lots of fire that would normally kill guardsmen, as well as dish out fire of thier own with hellguns and special weapons. Inquisitors based on what they are equiped for can be a great addtion as well. As for other doctrines, I use sharpshooter on my anti-tank squads, and the rest really depends on the needs of that particular battle. This list, or variations of such has worked for marines that crossed the board to come for me, as well as with a rather static tau army where the GKs had to go firewarrior and battlesuit hunting, while the anti-tank squads lived up to thier name(bye bye broadsides and hammerhead).
The key is using the guard for what they are good for, lots of heavy weapons, while balancing out what the DH are good for, generally closer fighting.
Battlesuits, putting the BS in BullS*%t.