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Does anyone have a good use for grey knight terminators in a 1500pt guard army fighting Tau? I bought the models because I liked the look of them, but after seeing the points cost I'd be hard pressed to fit them in to an effective list. But I don't want to have wasted £30 on a unit that i'l never use... so if anyone has a good way of including them i'l be more than happy.
Ever try deep striking them? They can blast a squad of fire warriors on the turn they land and next turn tie up another squad in close combat. Easier said then done but the only plasma weapons that the tau have are on there battle suits so as long as you stay away from them your Terminators should be home free.
Or deploy them near the front of your lines and force any enemy unit wishing to fire past them to take a Ld test. This can work because the enemy on average can only see Gery knights up to about 18" so they may end up wasting firepower. Stealth suits beware as storm bolters will tear them up as the Terminators close in as there assault weapons. Add a psycannon for battlesuit hunting.
I thought the Psycannon was AP4 and XVs had 3+ or better.
After reading your post it gave me some ideas:
Do you think it would be a good idea to try and directly engage the XVs in assault because the force weapons ignore armour which means they could whittle the numbers down pretty rapidly.
Also, do you think they would be useful against space marine squads? (an army my other friend plays)
My current IG army includes:
2 leman russ (3 hvy bolters)
1 veteran squads (3 meltas)
4 squads of guards (each with a plasma gun and lascannon)
and 3 command groups (with 2 grenade launchers and 1 plasma/ 2 grenade launchers/ 2 grenade launchers)
I already have lots of stuff to take out FWs (hvy bolters/grenade launchers) so I might need them for something else.
The main question whether I could use them competitively in a tournament.
Yes the AP of the psycannon isn't that good but it will get past the invulnerable save of any shield drones or shield generators the battle suits may have. Also its range and the fact that Terminators can move and shoot with it makes it easier to get a shot off.
You will find it hard to get into close combat with battlesuits as they can make a extra 6" move in the assault phase.
Battlesuits should be avoided if you can as they have some of the only AP2 weapons the tau have but the psycannon gives you the range to shot them in safety or jump out behind cover yourself and give them some of there own medicine.
GKTs are effective against everything but heavy armor(and you can take one or two GKTs with Thunderhammers and Storm Shields for use against Heavy Armor) so thats not the problem.
The problem is getting them to work/getting them to the enemy.
Walking them is more or less out of the question, unless they are coming to you they won't survive the trek across the board.
Depp Striking(henceforth DSing) them is the most effective option available to you, but thats not to say it is very effective. DSing them is a great way of getting them close the enemy, its also a good way to get your GKTs killed. Why? Because even with a psycannon 5 GKTs(I almost never see more than 5 in a squad) just don't have alot of shots, 8 Storm Bolter shots and 3 from the Psycannon, once you start working out the averages you'll find that you don't kill entire squads, unless the dice gods love you(thought technically you'd need 12 shots to completely kill a full strenght Fire Warrior squads and they only have 11) s thats not something to bank on, also, unless your friend plays static, I'm slmost willing to bet he can either;
A]Bring in soo many guns to shoot you they die/crippled (mostly hybrid armies)
B]Can pull the units in danger of being assaulted away leaving you with nothing to assault and only 11 sots to try and hurt them back, then you just get shot by things that you can't assault. (Mostly Mech but can happen with Hybrid armies too)If only it were that easy, I know that at least with the way I pay there is maybe 10-20% of the board that I can NOT hit with my two squads of 2 and my commander Crisis suits, and none of that 10-20% can be found in my army's footprint, so saying that DSing GKTs away from suits will save them is, not wrong, but far from right.Originally Posted by KOS-MOS
Not to mention that DSing is inherently random, you could end up where you want, or you can scatter farther away or even on to the unit(which means your GKTs go Splat) and the only way to ganrantee thier safety is to DS them 13+" away from anything, which also means that they can't move and assault the round after they DS unless something has moved closer to them.
Now, thats not to say they won't work ever, but honestly I feel that the points could be better invested in a 3rd leman russ or something to take out the Tau Skimmers.
Course, I'm slightly biased against GKTs, but they just aren't as reliable for my playstyle.
GKT are just sweet. they'll instant kill anytau they get into contact with, and they can survive a fair amount of fire power if u keep them away from crisis suits and if he has hammerheads/broadsides in ranger, realize that then they'd be in range of you two leman russ's so they can go kablooie. and chances are they'd go for the lemans. so i say form a spearhead, lead in the GTK and the 2 leman russ's with the rest of the guard pouring it in with a fire base. this will force him to either slit his attaks between the GTK, LR's or just focus on one. and if u equip the LR's with extra armor they'd be able to continue there advance. and 2 advancing LR's and a squad of the emporer's finest's finest will draw fire, and throw off his gameplan. while he's dealing with these guys ur vets can be battle suit hunting or objective capturing. just make sure you protect your tank's flanks, a rail gun against the front armor with extraa armor, i like our chances. but a railgun against the side and ur screw like a monkey on a steam boat.
Against a mech army i wouldnt even consider using them, but a static army they could be quite effective. Dont use them fro abttlesuit hunting because it will never work. They will lead you on a little danc e in which you wouldnt be able to cath then and the plaster you with ap2 and 1 weapons. I would go for his fire warriors (if he plays static) Deep strike the termies within range of the firewarriors. The get into cc with them.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.
You can try a lone Brother Captain w/ Psycannon right behind your gunline. His Independent Character status will prevent him from being shot at while he lays down some Psycannon fire and reacts to any charges against your gunline.
Or you can deepstrike him attached to a 10 man squad (provided they become available from reserves at the same time), the 10 ablative wounds will hopefully let him survive a round of shooting so he can get into close combat where he will shine. A Grandmaster works even better here but is pricy. If you go this route give your Termie a pistol to go with his Nemesis Force Weapon so he'll have an extra attack during close combat.
Last edited by kadun; April 3rd, 2007 at 00:00.
As for MeatyG's grey knights problem, there are a couple ways to use them. You can have them all CC oriented and footslog into the enemy line, drawing fire or countering any unit that he send to charge you. You can keep them range oriented by getting 5 termies, chaplain included with a psycannon. Or you can just deepstrike them as close to the enemy and hope it will be close enough for a charge. Lastly you can make them daemon killers when playing chaos, where they will get a ton of daemon killing benefits, as they are daemon hunters after all.
CC orienting - this serves mostly a fire absorbing role as you have a bunch of T4 2+ units that will absorb A LOT of enemy fire while slowly making their way closer to the enemy, if the enemy doesnt waste shot at them, they will deliver a powerful blow on a charge but due to their points cost, you have to make a desision whether or not you want such an expensive unit acting as your decoy, and gambling on whether or not they will make it into charge range.
Shooty oriented - means a unit with storm bolters and psycannon, who just sit in front of you line and hoze enemy wraiths, jetbikes and lone archons with shadow field with psycannon fire that makes their invulnerable save...uninvulnerable. Whenever a unit gets within your charge range, you countercharge them and prevent them from advancing any closer to your line. Grey knight terminators are a great counter charge unit that will hod the line for at least a few turns before getting wasted.
Deep strike oriented - is the most insecure method to deploy them, yet at the same time the most convenient. You are gambling on loosing the whole squad with a bad roll close to the enemy line, at the same time as landing too far away from it so you cant charge. Most of the time, if you deep strike 7-8" from the enemy line, chances are you will be fine. And even if you miss the charge, you will be in position to move and charge the next turns after you hoze the enemy with fire when you land. Deepstriking terminators are almot always CC oriented, otherwise there would be no reason to deepstrike them in the first place.
Anti-Chaos - taken for a sole reason when facing chaos army focused on Tzetch or slanesh where anti-deamon abilities can be used. Equiped any way you could want to insure killing some major daemon butt.
Overall, terminators are good but the have a couple twists to them and every time you want to take them, you need to ask yourself wether or not you want to spend 250 points on five models that you can loose to a good enemy charge or a bad deepstrike scatter.
So yes, they are great units, and yes they are really fun and expensive to field, no they dont guarantee victory and no, most of the time they will not make your job easier agaisnt a specific opponent. When fielding them, make sure not too deepstrike them next to things like Pariahs, genestealers, banshees, incubi, and blood letters. Dont let this scare you away though, they are awesome models to field for both battle and fluff purposes, plus they are shiny.
WraithGaurdians post was excellent, so I would take note!:shifty:
I actually like regular PAGK Grey Knights better for an IG army. The reason is that they are shootier, as you get almost twice as many Stormbolters for the price. They are almost as good in CC as the termies as well. This seems to fit my IG army better for playing style when I use them. Take them as a fast attack choice, and then you can set them up last, or deep stike them if you want, although I don't find that the best option usually.
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