Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm currently building an DA army (and to go with that I'm collecting the 5th company). For play I'll probably go more Ravenwing (thus giving a lot fast attack slots to speeders) so anyhow... As a company has 2 assault squads and I'm doing the first one, I though about the 2nd one, and the how to.
Are assault marines w/o jump packs worth it? Marines with a Chainsword and bolter, which can droppod or take a rhino (for no add. cost)... any pro's and con's.
I do keep in mind that I'd probably won't field a 2nd assault squad anyway, so perhaps this is a nice thing to swap around a bit. Unless of course it's a complete waste to even think about fielding something like not-jumpy assault marines.
I wouldnt take Assault Marines w/o Jump Packs, unless you were to field a Rhino. A Drop Pod can work as well, but the only problem you'd have is that they wouldn't be able to assault the turn they drop in, so you'd be a sitting duck while you most likely get shot at.
Take a Rhino if you go w/o Jump Packs.
Honestly, we have much better options for bp/ccw marines on foot, namely company vets. 9 of them, tricked out suitably and led by a Chaplain in a Rhino is much better than Assault Marines.
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
In short: they ARE not necessarily "worth it" if compared to Assault Marines with Jump Packs, but the surely CAN be if the circumstances fit. Depending on your army, your strategy and the enemy, Assault Marines without their Jump Packs indeed are an efficient unit.
I don't know much about the (new or old) Dark Angels (and their transport choices) but Assault squads without their Jump Packs can still be a viable option to include in your army.
I will be explaining from a Codex Marine perspective, so if anything doesn't fit for Dark Angels rules (you were saying something of free transport options - I don't know about that, for example) please accept my apologies.
Dark Angels don't get to take the Take The Fight To Them trait, so there will only be Marines with Bolters (or special or heavy weapons) except for the Assault squads and the Veterans. Therefore the Assault squad is the cheapest way of getting powerarmored close combat weaponry.
Another thing that sets them apart from Scouts / Veterans / Take The Fight To Them Marines is their unique choice of weapon upgrades.
Another plus is that they are Fast Attack, which means that they most usually get placed last. It definitely is an advantage to know what's going to be coming from where...
So if your opponent has terrible AP4 weaponry and you want a cheap counter-attack unit for your shooty army you could go Assault Marines without Jump Packs.
Deep-Striking them via Drop Pod is somewhat risky. The extra points for the Drop Pod almost make up for the points you freed by losing the Jump Packs, but equipped with the latter they should be able to strike in turn 2/3 more reliable than when podding in.
Of course they can be shot on their way but you at least you can stay behind cover. The Drop Pod leaves you prone one turn and all you can do is hide behind it. But even if your opponent doesn't shoot it: remember the Drop Pod also gives your opponent automatic VPs for immobilizing it!
I imagine them doing quite well with the Rhino, more so if the Dark Angels' ones are cheaper and better equipped as I heard. They will lose some speed but gain protection and you have another model (for cover, with a Storm Bolter and the ability to Tank Shock, if nothing else) on the field.
But, here too, the points for the Rhino probably make up for the points freed by losing the Jump Packs.
So what I am saying is that though Jump Pack equipped Assault squads are probably the better choice in the majority of encounters, Assault Marines without can have their advantages and be viable options.
The Drop Pod though seems to be the most worst way to deploy them. Such a squad would survive and maybe do some good if you included it in an all-Drop Pod army, but then there will be probably be podding units more efficient for their points.
If you want them nothing should keep you from fielding them. As written I think they work well as a countercharge unit for your shooty army or rushed up ahead inside a transport.
Aren't DA drop pods open-topped now? That's what I thought from reading my codex, which means assault out of them... So i'm pretty sure you can assault out of a drop pod onto some bad people 'cause you have an instant charge, not having to wait a turn...
"Thousand Sons! Fight in the Emperor's name!"
DA :8/5/7 Eldar:3/3/5 1KSons:3/1/2
Nope...FAQ said that you can't assault from DA drop pods. They're just SM drop pods for now.
Jump-pack-less Assault Marines are really a conditional thing. If you haven't got the points spare for a full Assault Squad, but want some more close combat punch, or if you need them to shield your firing line or serve as a counter-charge, then yeah. Maybe. I personally wouldn't, because I find the 12'' movement more reliable than a Rhino or a Drop Pod. You do save a whole lot of points.
There are upsides, like the different weapon upgrades and the FA slot, but really...Assault Marines without jump packs aren't really Assault Marines. What you're suggesting is unorthodox and it'll certainly catch your opponent off-guard. That doesn't say it'll be effective; you have to remember that even after whatever transport that they take has dropped them off, they still move like infantry. I love the 12'' jump move. It allows you to pull off flanking maneouvres your opponent can't see coming. So no, I wouldn't. You might. It all depends.
The above poster = Totally a member of the Fluff Masters Clan. Click here for fluff pwnage.
Come, sons of LO! Kneel before Poodle!
Mr_Wayne: "Some people believe that the World Eaters do not field any ranged weaponry. Those people often die at a distance."
It seems to work for Khorne Beserkers, why not for loyal marines as well?
If you drop a shell on your foot an it don't urt, your shoota aint big enough!