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Question. Why do Space Marines, who have the best personal armor in the game, have battle tanks with side armor of __? Tau and Imperial Guard have better armor for their tanks than Space Marines. Any thoughts?
Last edited by Katie Drake; April 11th, 2007 at 23:22.
Well, there are a couple reasons why, and part of it is fluff
1) Space marine vehicles must be able to be transported with the Thunderhawk transports. 2 fully loaded rhino chassis (rhino/razorback/predator/etc) weigh about the same as a land raider. So the lighter armor reduced the weight.
2) Space marines need to be able to move. They must be mobile. As a rapid strike force, they often get to choose the orientation of the attack. This means that the front armor is where the attacks will be going
3) The STC template says so.
4) The space marines have the best personal armor in the game. If the Space Marines had access to Imperial Guard type tanks (High armor and a SM Ballistic Skill) They would be rather potent. Possibly moreso than now. And why would anyone play guard, if you could have a marine in a Leman Russ.
5) The designers felt that 11 side armor was appropriate.
hmm on further deliberation, 3 and 5 seem awfully similar... ...
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Well Forsaken2544 summed it up pretty well so ill just add my thoughts. For one thing the predator is based off the rhino and so has the same side armour as its sister vehicle. And second marines are a rapid strike force that strike the enemy hard and fast with there power armored infantry not there tanks. They only use there tanks when they are forced to like when fighting a tank heavy blood pact army for example.
On the other hand the guard are in it for the long haul, they do all the dirty work while the marines sit at home playing ping pong so they need amour that is easy to maintain and durable in the face of enemy fire. So don't forget your poor guard playing friend next time your down the local games workshop.
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Because, in fluff, and reality, all tanks except the land raider/dreadnought/landspeeder are based off rhino. The front armor on predators, and vindis is simply increased. The imperium probably feels this is the best mix of resources to effectiveness for the space marines.
Space marines use way more drop pods, rhinos and razorbacks, then they do in game play currently.
Really space marines dont use tanks much - refering to your general chapters like ultra marines.
Obviously, other chapters use mass tanks, but they are less common.
The truth is that Fluff Space Marines have little need for tanks. The most iconic method of deployment is via drop pod, which is pretty much indicative of their entire combat philosophy. An armoured column is powerful, but also slow and ponderous, two things Marines don't like.
Essentially, the Predator is a Rhino with batteries taking up transport space and more armour on the front. But really, you're right. Predators should have 12 side armour; they don't because it would make Predators actually pretty good, and making Space Marines too good is something the designers have to be careful about.
Besides, a Baal Predator with AV12 on both sides is assault cannoney brokenness to the limit.
There are ways around the faulty side armour; placing your tanks next to walls or impassable terrain, while blocking off the LOS of one sponson, will stop the opponent from firing on the side arc. Running them next to the board edge and ensuring they turn at the of their movement to present the front face towards the enemy is illogical, nonsensical, and works rather well for cutting off an entire side arc and presenting the other one towards your own units.
I've always thought Eldar and Tau speeders should have less front armour. It sounds silly, but if you think of how speeders move (during a flanking maneouvre, you present the side arc to the enemy) and how the models display their engines and cockpits prominently - look at the Falcon. If you threw a frag grenade into those huge vents it has beneath the cockpit you'd probably make the thing explode. And what's protecting the cockpit? Glass? Super-plastic? It kinda makes sense if you think about it a little. But it'll never happen because it's plain wierd.
Plus, I think the Predator AV has been like that or an equivalent of that since at least 2nd edition, and GW saw no reason to change it. It does push people towards favouring Devastators to an unhealthy degree, but this also works because to make an optimum devastator squad you need, currently, two devastator plastic box sets, since they come with only one missile launcher each.
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Being a SM player myself I rarely see the 11 side armour as much of a problem, but then again ive yet to play against someone with more experience then me and thats not saying a whole lot :cry:
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I would think ballance played into it a little. your already looking at an army whos armour save is 3+ for the basic troop. Plus they have the widest array of upgrades. you can take a basic 10 man marine squad and tool them up for close combat with powerfist/powerweapons or throw in a plasma and las cannon and you have a decent ranged unit. Imagin what it would be like if not only our troops were tough but when you shot at a preditor you had side armour of 12 or 13 to get through. We'd hear nothing but whining about how Space Marines are too strong.
Aah, but the increase in performance would also result in an increase in points cost, balancing the new vehicles with the old. (just look at how GW improved the new and more expensive assault cannon)
As an ork player who fights beakies alot, I have always thought that a side armour of 11 on your vehicles is a bit feeble. I mean, a highly advanced top of the range tank that can be shot to bits by heavy machineguns! (ie big shootas) You would think that they would at least make the tanks of the Emperor's Elite resistant to small arms fire, or my Warboss's bare fist. (S5) :x
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This is what i have thought out is that the rhino and its derivatives are essentially made of the same stuff as marine armour so is it really a surprise that the value is that low? My personal preference and this is reflected in my list is that space marines are a highly mobile and tactically deployed force so armour isnt there first concern they are in my view a rapid reaction force mainly and the only reason they are in long pro;onged conflicts is because the gaurd cant hadle it. They are to be used in precise stikes in places where they belive they can break through( this is often through difficult terain that the tanks of the gaurd tank based army cant manage).
This taken into acount makes the current armour value a good idea. I personally dont want to see marines become more expensive as then the size of my normal army would decrease and that limits any tactical advantage i can get over my opponent as i do not want to rely on my armour to win a battle as i know that pretty much anyone with sense knows how to crack a marine army which is what i have been doing till this point in time.