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I am struggling to make a list which has to face both orks and eldar, as i think teminators are not that good against orks because of the choppa special rule.
Termies don't tend to fair well against either army, due to the Orks' choppas and all the nasty armor-ignoring junk Eldar can throw at you.
For both I would reccomend a static shooting army with a nice counter-assaulting punch (Company Vets, Assault Squad, RW). Go for missile launchers and heavy bolters to cut down large numbers of enemy infantry and handle tanks. Flamers are also good for thinning numbers out. Whirlwinds and Pred Destructors make nice cheap platforms for killing large quantities of enemy infantry. A Librarian would prove useful to cancel out Eldar powers and insta-thwack any multi-wounders with his force sword or burninate with Hellfire. Scouts don't suffer against choppas since they already have a 4+ save and can chop up most Eldar/Orks in assault.
Go for lots of Tactical Squads, some Devvies, the aforementioned Pred/WW, Company Vets/Command Squad and a Libby for some solid Ork/Eldar killing. Split your squads as needed.
How many points are you working with? What sort of Ork/Eldar armies are you facing? Without more details I can provide general ideas at best.
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Biel-tan means Aspects which, if he's not playing the Ork guy as well, means Howling Banshees. So expect your armour to be totally useless.
What I would do in such a situation is take two full squads of CC scouts, but since you're playing Dark Angels their position in the FOC makes this a little unviable, and it's probably not worth even using an Elites slot unless you've got nothing else to put in there. Significant manpower is probably your best bet, and I'd advise against breaking up any squads. Horde orks can be cut down effectively with bolter fire (one of the rare armies that can) with the odd heavy bolter thrown in. So, tactical squads with HB, stand-and-shoot type of play.
The Eldar are more difficult. Since their tanks are ludicrously difficult to take down, you'll need heavy weapons, so I'd recommend at least one Devastator squad. If you're playing both armies with the same lists, take missiles, since they at least have some anti-infantry capacity, and if he's transporting his Aspects in Wave Serpents, lascannons wouldn't do much good (energy shield.)
Now; if the Eldar player is also playing the Ork player, he'll likely take either Swooping Hawks or Dark Reapers, and definitely Dire Avengers. In fact, prepare for Dire Avengers regardless, as they've become pretty much the stock Eldar troops unit following the Guardian support platform nerf.
So you'll need AP4 guns. With means, conveniently enough...heavy bolters! Go crazy on the shooty. If you haven't got any heavy bolters, some kind of CC unit would be nice. Don't go mad on the assault, though. You definitely want to focus on shooting both armies to pieces, but at the same time, make sure your list is mobile enough to cope if either of them bring shooty armies (yes, Orks can make shooty armies. That's why they invented dakka.)
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as they said heavy bolters are going to be the wat to go. Whirlwind will also give you a decent S_ and an AP_ its going to deny most models from each army there armour save. With the orcs low leadership when placed right it could hold up the units in the back while the guys in the front get pinned. Also i wouldnt worry about taking a command squad or taking elites. DA command squads tend to be build around short ranged shooting and close combat fighting so only spend the points on them if your planing on getting in close.
Finaly i cant see any elite choiced being needed. The only exception i could see is if you wanted to take a unit of scouts. Not for there infiltrat rule but with 4 sniper rifles and a heavy bolter. it would give you another unit that can pin and an extra heavy bolter for them to deal with.
Last edited by Katie Drake; May 9th, 2007 at 18:42.
what sort of leader should i have and should i have more than one, i like chaplains and i think he will make my line more resilient to a charge.
should i take a dreadnought?
should i take a predator with a autocannon and heavy bolters?
what about ravenwing?
I only have one word for you. Dakka.
ok, to your questions, in order:
I would consider a chaplain, maybe a company master (for the extra leadership on target priority), maybe Sammael in his speeder... that's about it. I would also only take one of them.
I would strongly consider it, just keep in mind DA dreads can be expensive.
I wouldn't bring bikes, but I might consider 2-3 land speeders with ACs and HB (those two weapons will wreak havoc on horde armies, and Eldar.
In terms of general strategy, against the horde orkz termies might actually be alright. deepstrike them 24 inches out, shoot, orkz advance, you fall back 6, shooting all the while. Since termies can do the march backwards thing and still put out a decent volume of fire I've found them to be decent Vs. footslogging\horde orkz.
Against Eldar, well as has been said missile launchers, heavy bolters, and be wary of a group of howling banshees being dropped off in the middle of your lines.
other than that, orkz you want to shoot the living tar out of them. The eldar you want to shoot banshees and striking scorpions, and you want to assault dire avengers, dark reapers, and pretty much anything else. I think that covers all the bases.
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As far as HQ goes, I have found a great assault/counter assault unit is an IC chappy w/ storm bolter accompanying a Vet Squad w/ PWs possibly mounted in a HB razorback or rhino.
Everything else is good advice so far, mow down the orks with lots of fire, and spam the eldar tanks with med str firepower in hopes of bringing them down. Prioritise your targets as far as aspect warriors go, and concentrate your fire until you eradicate that particular target.
Battlesuits, putting the BS in BullS*%t.
Use the Whirlwind, and a term. squad with max assault cannons, other than that use lots of bolters and heavy weapons. Like HBs and MLs. The cheaper something is while maxing killing power at range the better.
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As has been said, heavy bolters are great for both armies.
Get some speeders with heavy bolters AND assault cannons. Shooting both at some Eldar and Orks will be awesome. Just be careful with the Eldar and their good anti speeder stuff.
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