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My question is - AM I ALLOWED TO TAKE DEEP STRIKING STORM TROOPERS WITH A COMMISSAR ATTACHED AS AN ADVISOR (deep striking with them) ?
I've decided to create a new topic refering to this issue because of ig players' different opinnions.
In my opinnion it is okay because:
- codex does not say that this is forbidden
- advisors function a bit different while comparing to independent charachters (which does not gain the ability of squad they are with)
- an advisor becomes a member of a squad and may not leave it... etc.
If so, what would be the cost of ten ST with Commissar deep striking (10, 11 points) ?
Unless the stormtrooper DS section specifically says "all members of the squad can pay 1 point each to deepstrike" (as opposed to "all ST's can pay 1 point etc" .... AND, if the advisors rule specifically says that "advisors become members of the squad."
I don't have my codex with me, but personally I think it's pushing it. If those 2 rules are worded just right, you may be able to rules-lawyer it, but I'm not so keen on it myself.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
Right there is a quick and simple answer to this. Does the commisar have the option in his profile.
The answer is no therefore he cannot deepstrike.
Now the stormies he is attatched to, does it say that they buy the ability for "the squad". the answer is no they buy it individually. Therefore the commisar has no way to deepstrike.
Now refer to the rules book, the squad has to move at the ate of its slowest member, therefore as one member cannot deepstrike no-one can.
Advisors dont magically gain options, they dont have any specail rule sother than what is in their profile and in the small box on the advisors page. It says nowhere that they gain the ability of the squad. This is only the case if the squad is given an ability as a whole from the doctrines section eg commisar in platoon command can deepstrike as it was bought for "the squad" of which he is a member.
if they dont have the option they can't do it, the codex doesnt say having eighteen autocannons on my russ is forbidden yet as there is no option for this then I can't do it. Simply you can do somehting if it says you can just becasue it doesnt say you can't doesnt mean it is legal.
Now saying that, many players use house rules. One of the ones we use is that a commisar can take the squads deepstrike or infiltrate option if he is placed in it and pays the points. This is an additional house rule for somehting players wish to do. It isn't tournie legal and could be forwned upon in a store but it is a house rule.
hope thta helps
Further to what Lincoln has said I checked through the rules and as the wording is in your favour it coudl be played that way. So they can buy it for each model. Some may argue with this in tournies but it means the house rule we always played is correct. (this is what happens when you play for ages woith house rules you forget why they are rules )
There are some other things I would like to know:
1. I asked about commissar and stormies because I find it most effective close combat squad (with power fist on commissar that can't be chosen in close combat by enemy player, power weapon on sergeant, sv 4+, 2 assault weapons, n' WHERE IS HIS WILL NEEDED ? - appearing anywhere you wish them on the table.
I know that there are some other 'close combat specialists' but I have sth against each of them:
ogryns - don't like their fluff and I find them too expensive
veterans - they seem to be perfect (3 assault weapons, power fist or/and power weapon with an exception of sv 5+ (btw: who do you think better in close combat - vets or kasrkins???)
rough riders - i'm not sure of taking them fot their hunting lance one use only, I even converted some models but I'm afraid I wouldn't make good use of them
p.s. What do you think of taking Grey Knights as allies? Ok they are expensive but they really know how to fight, have nice equipment and what I find most important have impressive gk special rules (fearless, deep strike even if a mission doesn't permit) .
Stormies are bad in combat, thye may look like a good buy but their strength is in the shooting. Thats what you are paying the extra for.
The same with vets and they last even less time due to the armour.
Rough riders are a dedicated cc unit, the first charge is all that is needed for them to do the job. If you give their sarge a ower sword ad possibly a melta bomb they can be useful after the initial combat.
Also to get the commisars in the stormie squad you are going to have to be buying at least 3 of them (2 if you have grenadier setup), they are also expensive and for leadership. if you want a hidden model that will kill take a few psykers. They are cheap for the squads that have to have them and then when you have the one were you wnat it honorifica and force weapon. priests give their bonuses to the close combat aswell.
Stormies dont benefit from doctrines either so such simple things as the close order drill doctrine wont help, none of them will. Now if you get a line squad with COD and HF then they woudl kick the stormies heads in V quick. A platoon command is your best bet if you want an assault squad. It means minimal commisar spending, they can deepstrike if you really wnat (remeber deepstrike units cant assault on the turn they drop and you have no control over when they drop either they are unreliable) they can take more special weapons, they can also take doctrines. put it this way
10 men + commisar + powerfist + vet sarge + 2 special weapons (any CC secial wepaons such as flamers are really not worht it for stormies) + powersword = 191 points
They have, 18 WS3 I3 attacks on the charge normal + 3 powersword at the same time and skill, and a powerfist (losing your only good I value) going after everything with 3 I1 S6
Now a platoon command with commisar (already cheaper as there is only an extra 40 points needed rather than 80 to get one here)
5 men + commisar + 2 powerswords + close order + hardned fighters + 2 flamers = 117 and there is even more you could do to upgrade such as vets for the last to men or even the honorifica, lets say honorifica and vets aswell as we have the points =154 total (expensive but youll see why) (you even have the option of carapce on all but 2 members for 20 points and frags for 6 for all)
12 WS4 I4 normal attacks, 9 I5 WS5 powerweapon attacks, now if these units were to clash I think you would agree that the platoon command would win easily, (we have to ignore shooting here otherwise itll get v complicated and even then could go in the commands favour.
As you can see the stormies have no way of being upgraded to be good in combat, the vets are the same but dont benefit form the good armour. Stormies and vets are designed to get in shoot like crazy and then run away to find something else that needs holes in. This is why they have increased BS.
Rough riders beat these squads hands down, a full 10 man squad with vet sarge and power weapon costs 121 points they can even have carapace for an extra 20! if you are worried about them after the first round then think why? stomries are like that all of the time without the charge bonuses! (21 I5 WS3 ST5 power weapon attacks on the charge is going to hurt something then you are down to 9 normal attacks plus 2 powerweapon attacks in subsequent rounds compared to the stromies this is the same apart from they have an extra power weapon attack and the commisar plus they wont have killed most of the enemy on the charge.)
Grey knights are a good option. take the normal guys and about a ten man squad. they can also shoot better than most squads aswell. You pay a pretty price for them but they are good.
hope that helps