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Give them jump packs! Love those chainswords!
Bikes are the way to go!
Neither. Do something else.
Due to some basing issues (won't go into it in this thread), I'm re-thinking my custom SM force a bit. I orignally planned for a 10-man assault squad with two plasma pistolers and a powerfisted sergeant, led by a jump pack-equipped chappie. It's a 1,000-1,500 point force, mostly populated with tac squads, but I'm also including a dread and landspeeder tornado. Relatively standard stuff, but I want my HQ to be a chaplain, and liked the simple, yet effective all-killing squad mentioned above.
Now, though, I'm wondering if I wanna do that or a bike squad, which would essentially consist of another classic, can't-go-wrong crew: Full bike squad, including melta guns + one attack bike with multi-melta, assisted by the biker chaplain. That gives me plenty of hitting power, and the added bonus of a better tank-hunting ability.
What do you think? I'm pretty sure the bikes would cost more pointswise, and I'd have to buy new models (anybody wanna buy a primed assault squad?), but which would you use if faced with the choice? I realize I haven't posted my full list with traits, etc., but just in general, what are your thoughts on advantages/disadvantages of each?
Personally, I say go for the assault squad. The Chaplain becomes strictly better as the number of attacks his Litanies of Hate ability affects.
Litanies of Hate is good when it's affecting 11 swings and four power-fist attacks from a bike squad, but it's a lot better when it's affecting 27 swings and four power-fist attacks from an assault squad.
Of course, there's something to be said for the survivability of the bikes--assault marines sometimes have trouble making it to their targets alive, and so the number of attacks they actually deliver when they get there is expected to be sub-optimal, whereas bikes are much better at getting there intact. Of course, it only takes half the assault marine squad to put out better damage in combat than the bikes--and the assault marines are cheaper (by a little).
Anyway, it's a tossup, but I'd generally run assault marines over bikes in anything but a list that was specifically emphasizing bikes.
Well . . id say bike squad because of turbo boost and toughness 5 , but still id say go for the assault , because you get 3 atks on the charge aloowing re-rolls =P . Yummy . .
I'd go with the Assault Squad as its a bit cheaper and will probably do more damage once it hits home. Just be careful with those bloody plasma pistols. >.< They love to overheat and kill expensive models like those.
Depends on what you want. Both squads are good assault troops. The bikers have the advantage of some good firepower before charging in but the assault marines are still better in combat. However, offsetting that the bikers can as you said, hunt tanks, and generally providing fire support. So again, what are you after? A superb combat squad or one that can perform other roles as well?
Bikes are excellent for tying up shooty armies while the rest of your army advances, but assault squads are better otherwise. I run jump troopers in my list that sounds very similar to yours. Check it out in the army list forum.
Last edited by LittleBlueMan; May 19th, 2007 at 21:44.
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
I chose bikes.
While the Assault squad does put out more attacks when at full strength but as it's been said, it's usualy not at full strength when it gets to the assault. A full strength Assault squad is a giant target for your opponent and he's going to stop it from getting to his lines as best he can which means you're going to lose models on your way to him.
Bikes on the other hand, while lower in attacks, have a greater chance of getting those attacks in their entirety. With the added toughness the bike adds and Turboboosting Invul Saves, you can use their speed to keep the terrain between you and the more dangerous enemy squads. With the number of guns pointed at you cut down and the T5 and Invul saves, the bikes will get there with little losses. Add in the surprisingly powerful shooting power brought to bear due to the Attack bike, Melta/flamers and Twinlinked bolters and the damage they can do can equal the Assault squad in real situations.
With speed of the Turboboost, your bikes will probably be in or next to the enemy's deployment zone on the first turn and by second turn they'll be in the thick of it shooting and assaulting by turn two. The psychological effect of this on your opponent doubles their effectiveness, that's something the Assault squad can't really do. Plus, bikes are versetile. If you get out manuvered during deployment or if you want to fake out your opponent, a quick turbo boost can drasticaly change your army's position leaving your opponent's forces out of position and scrambling to regroup.
I personaly have a preference for Bikes, it shows doesn't it, but it all comes down to which you feel would fit your games better. Proxy the models a few times to get the feel of 'em and ask some other players their opinions, that should give you a good idea on which to choose.
Glad I could help. ^^
People who don't know how to use artillery are using artillery, and that scares me. -TacJack
Bring out the Bikes!
To tell you the truth I am using an Assault squad with a Chaplain in Jump Pack and they do miracles together... Also I don't use plasma pistols as they have the bad habit of overheating and I'm unlucky with that rolls... But to support the ongoing Assaulties and Chaplain I have 3 bikes... They all work together very nice to be sincere...
Thanks to all the people showing faith in me
I sometimes feel that everyone will leave me and they will be on their own...
oh how true it is....
was in a doubles tournament the other week, i saw 4 guys kill themselves in 1 turn (2 Imperial Stormtroopers and 2 Chaos marines) just trying to take out my Marine squad... unfortunately for them they killed noone but themselves... WOOP!
anyway, after that same tourney i would say the Assault marines, me myself have already ordered 5 more assault marines and a jump pack fitted chaplain just because of what happened there...
the guy deployed out of our LoS, then lept over the terrain with jump packs, straight into CC with my infiltrating scouts and wiping them out in 1 assault phase (4 re rolling power weapon attacks ALL wounding didnt help)
they then survived the next shooting phase (damned 3+ save) to charge a crisis battlesuit, tau pathfinders, and fire warriors...
in total those 7 assault marines and 1 chaplain killed:
8 SM Scouts
6 Tau Pathfinders
1 Shas'vre Crisis Battlesuit
10 Tau Fire warriors
3 Space Marines
and all with only 2 casualties and the chaplain taking 1 wound.......
I would go for a nice big assault squad over a few bikes anyday but theres no reason not to take both in your army with a few land speeders to make your force able to support each other when one of them gets stuck in.
Bikes can get bogged down with the few number of attacks that the squad will have and the Turboboosting save will not help you from small arms fire and you only have around 4 wounds before you lose the whole squad. Sure bikes may have the edge when it comes to speed but assault marines can jump over things in order to get to were they need to be and in some cases like in city fight they may even prove even faster then a bike squad thanks to there jump packs.
Your less likely to lose any weaponry you give the squad like a powerfist as the enemy has to get past a lot of wounds in order to protect any targets that your squad is gunning for.
"Hey sarge, this lasgun is heavy. I wish we had something lighter."
FF7: ABOUT RANDOM BATTLES