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  1. #1
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    Thinking SOBs, questions...

    Hi folks,

    I've been absent from the forums for a year or two now, and from the hobby for about the same. Now my mates and I are getting back into it. I've been working on a Dark Eldar army on and off for a few years, and am FINALLY nearly done with them. We've agreed that we'll start Fantasy armies around Christmas, but that leaves a tidy 6 month gap in between.

    Because of that, I'm considering starting a Witch Hunters (more SOB than -I-) army, but have a few questions:

    1. Is it possible at all to acquire exorcists these days, through official means (not Ebay)? My understanding was that they were a limited edition type thing, and were no longer available. Yet the US GW Online Store has Exorcists apparently available for sale. I ask because I adore this model, and it alone could easily be the difference in whether I start Witch Hunters, or look to another army (or just start Fantasy early).

    2. I'm thinking Mech Sisters. In general, about how many models would a 1500 Mech Sisters list include? I'm an anal painter, taking ages even on basic troops, and would certainly want to do the detailed models justice. If the army has HEAPS of models, I probably won't get it done before Christmas.

    3. The standard "are they competitive?" question. My regular opponents are Deathguard, vanilla Marines and Eldar, with a sprinkling of Tau when that fellow decides to join us. Do SOBs compete on an even field in general? (I'm not too worried about "Sisters OWN XXXXX, but get mashed by YYYYY", just looking for a general answer.

    I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions, but it's 1:30am here, so I'll leave it at that for now. Cheers in advance.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    #1- You kinda answered your own question.
    In short: the Pipe Organ can be be obtained.

    #2- Read St John70's post on Mech Sisters.
    His post efficienty captures the constants and essentials of Mechanized WH.
    After reading it, you will have the best conceptual knowledge of how it works, and you will be able to guestimate the number of models in your army with fair accuracy.

    #3- You will get a variety of responses on who they trump and who trumps them.
    I will confine my answer to Pure WH, since you seem to be going that way.
    - Shooty Marines are tough.
    - Assaulty Marines are a bit easier (because they move into your Rapid-fire range for you)
    - Necrons are very tough. (Perhaps the worst)
    - Tau are not very difficult, so long as you are very mobile (this includes jump packs!)
    - YOu didn't specify wether Happy Eldar or Dark Eldar.
    If you ask me, WH vs Eldar is really all about the builds you both bring.

    If you are mobile, then you've invested points into your mobility.
    A very mobile Eldar player who is very careful should still be able to outmaneuver you
    (and therefore your investment in mobility is mostly for naught), so I would consider that a tough win. Most of the time, Eldar are mobile, and most of the time WH are mobile, so I'd say Eldar are on the tough side.

    Dark Eldar that loads up on AP3 templates (and boy they can deliver a lot of them) can shut you down on turn 1. But if you have a lot of Heavy Bolters, he'll wither. But a typical WH build (that I'm used to seeing) doesn't contain a lot of HBs, so I'd have to say that DE are a tough opponent also.
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

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    Thanks for the props Red.

    Silent - My tactica does have good points if you're planning on choosing Mechanized Sisters.

    Your strengths are going to lie in the Cannoness, Rhino mounted Battle Sisters, Seraphim, and Exorcists. A 1500 pt army might contain
    1 Cannoness
    3-4 Rhino Battle Sister Squads
    1-2 Seraphim Squads
    2 Exorcists
    So around 46-48 models and 5-6 tanks.

    I went 3/1/1 in the LVGT with my Mech Sisters. The weakness that I had was in dealing with Reserves missions where the opponent had better ability to bring in his army, either through army design (Autarch in Eldar game 1) or through mission (game 3, attacker had huge advantage). If you like, you can read about it in my blog.

    In the games that I've played, I find Mech Sisters to be highly competitive. You can struggle a bit against armies that are able to throw a tremendous number of high strength shots into your rhinos, but even these can be overcome. The one trouble army that I have a hard time with is Mounted Dark Eldar, simply because everything in their army is so cheap. They can have 8 squads in 8 vehicles, all with anti-tank capabilities, and the DE player normally doesn't care about losing any 2 of them at any given time.

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    Thanks for your answers.

    Yes, I suppose I did answer my own question about the Exorcist, but I thought it was odd that it should be available there when I was told it wasn't. Wasn't sure what to make of it.

    You suggest that there are a small number of units that are essential for a Mech Sisters list. This concerns me a little bit, in that I'm worried I may find it boring.

    In my Dark Eldar list I field a meataxe HQ, Wyches, Raider squads, Sniper squads, Jetbikes, Ravagers and Warp Beasts. 7 different types of units. Here you suggest that there are 4 essential parts to a Mech Sisters army. Do you guys also use other units? Dominions? Retributors? Non-celestian Elites?

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    I run a 1500 point mech sisters list, but I do use a bit of Inquisitorial back up. Its all sisters, apart from 2/ 3 death cult assassins, a Callidius/ Eversor assassin, and an Inquisitor and retinue. To answer your question, I use a small unit of 6 retributors with 3 heavy bolters. Normally this unmovable unit wouldn't be suited to a mech list, but because of all the fast moving targets, they tend to get left alone. Also, I gave them an immolator transport with heavy bolters. Its cheap, adds to their killing power, and tends to get left alone.

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    Member stjohn70's Avatar
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    I didn't mean to imply those were the only kinds of units - just the most efficient. If you want to sprinkle in some Inquisitorial flavor, then there are assassins and other fun things to throw in.
    Other good sister units include Celestians, Dominions, and Retributors.

    Beware of some of the funky units: Arco-flagellants, Sisters Repentia, and Penitent Engines. They look cool, but in reality perform sub-par at best.

    Take a look at the codex and come up with some sample lists to help figure out what you want.

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    The guys above have hit all the highlights and have great advice. I'll input because I have both a mech sister army with about 3000 pts and also a DE army with 3000 points. First off, the speed difference between mech sisters and DE are like a Yugo and a Porsche. There just is no comparison. Using a warp portal makes fighting a gun line far easier. A 12' rhino drive-by while very strong, isn't a 30 inch assault radius of wyches using a portal and a raider. The good news is smoke and extra armor go a long way to make that rhino rush more survivable. While you don't need quite as much cover as the DE, sisters still need some to block LOS to minimize incoming fire.

    Your Sisters will have trouble vs mech Tau, mech Eldar and crons. We only have s8 weapons (and only the Exo is > 24" range) so killing those super falcons and fish can be hard. Yes, DE only have the same S8 with DL's but you can field quite a few DL's in a DE list. If there is a lack of cover, gun lines can also be hard to play against. Sisters will do pretty well against other Meq's by using faith. Your sisters will also fair better against horde armies with access to a lot of flamers.

    Where DE have dissies and DL's AND blasters for the wyches, Sisters basically have only melta and Exo missles. The big trade off is the Sisters have far better survivability. But they are still a T-3 army. Sisters as mentioned, excel at close range fire fights but have a long range weakness. Inducted guard can ease that problem.

    With faith, the Sisters are a very fun army. I find Sisters to be a challenging army the same way a DE army can be challenging. They will never be a "take your milk money" type of army and could use a little beefing up to make it a bit tougher. But as you are probably like most DE players, I think you will like the challenge.

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    I've done a couple of lists (and played a proxy game or two) in the past. Which raises more questions.

    While I was a bit inexperienced when I did it (with the game in general), I took the view that Sisters are about shooting, and so I didn't tool my VSSs up with anything. Nothing at all. They were just a Faith Point with a bolter.

    I actually took this further, and after looking at the Canoness, had decided that she was going to be used as 2 walking Faith Points, and again, gave her very little wargear, with the intention of sacrificing her early. I do realise now, from reading, that she can be quite the formidable opponent in combat.

    But I wonder, what's the accepted wisdom on VSSs being given CC equipment (eviscerators and the likes)? Is it accepted as a viable strategy, is it foolish, is it necessity?

    With regards to the Canoness, how do people tool her up? Do they ever play her like I did, as being there to be martyred?

    What do people normally take in the way of CC power in a Mech list? 1 unit of Celestians (although I don't understand why people rate them that highly, they don't seem like they'd stand up to some other armies decent (not even exceptional) close combat units)? Just a Canoness? Nothing at all?

    I will throw some lists together, but I thought I'd ask these sorts of questions first...

  10. #9
    Member stjohn70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    While I was a bit inexperienced when I did it (with the game in general), I took the view that Sisters are about shooting, and so I didn't tool my VSSs up with anything. Nothing at all. They were just a Faith Point with a bolter.
    This is a typical view. I run mine with bolters - and some with a Book of St Lucius.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    But I wonder, what's the accepted wisdom on VSSs being given CC equipment (eviscerators and the likes)? Is it accepted as a viable strategy, is it foolish, is it necessity?
    It's ... ok. Your VSS in normal squads isn't there for the CC capabilities. Strength 3 Power Weapons do nothing, and Eviscerators get expensive really quickly - they're best left to more elite units.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    I actually took this further, and after looking at the Canoness, had decided that she was going to be used as 2 walking Faith Points, and again, gave her very little wargear, with the intention of sacrificing her early.
    This is ok for a second Cannoness. The WH list really needs a the first one's CC abilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    With regards to the Canoness, how do people tool her up? Do they ever play her like I did, as being there to be martyred?
    Typical build: Blessed Weapon, Cloak of St Aspira, Bolt Pistol, Frag Grenades, Book of St Lucius - 122 pts. Some may sprinkle in the Mantle of St Ophelia or an Inferno Pistol, but I like the basic build.

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentTempest View Post
    What do people normally take in the way of CC power in a Mech list? 1 unit of Celestians (although I don't understand why people rate them that highly, they don't seem like they'd stand up to some other armies decent (not even exceptional) close combat units)? Just a Canoness? Nothing at all?
    You're right that Celestians don't stand up to opposing armies. I don't rate them highly. Besides your Cannoness, the best CC unit you have is Seraphim. At 8 models with a couple hand flamers and vet with Eviscerator, this unit hurts. A lot.

    Good luck - we'll see you around.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    Celestians.
    THis is probably a little advanced for this thread, but I love talking about them.
    The way I purchase and use Celestians is odd, but it works.

    I will only buy some if I have points remaining after filling out the most important roles.
    (After I have filled Force Org, and kitted out my Seraphim and Heavy Slots)
    I almost never take a vet.

    When I do use Celestians on the field, I try to use them to absorb charges.
    They are a very cost-efficient tarpit. Of course, they can do other things.
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

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