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Ok. So, could you guys provide a difference between a Daemonhunter army and a Space marine army (both pros and cons).
SM: mobile shooty.
DH: focus on Grey knights. forget about the inquisition part.
thanks in advance.
Points cost leaps to mind. Without going into specifics, a Space Marine with extra wargear/weapons etc. can cost less than a "standard" grey kngiht. That alone turns some players off, as it leads to a MUCH smaller force for the same points, making tactical decisions on the board... challenging.
Others dislike working with GK models. Yes, they are gorgeous, but they are all metal, with little/no opportunity for conversion/scratchbuilding, and other than the termies, straight knights, justicars and special weapons carriers you don't see a lot of model variants.
Having said that, the GKs have many special "standard" special abilities (like shrouding) that give them an edge. Plus, they use storm bolters and the nemesis force weapon attacks at initiative AND gives a strength boost to the wielder. Not too shabby. Overall, they perform a bit better offensively than ordinary Space Marines, but defensively the stats are virtually identical.
I started as a DH player, have WH and proxy in SM a bit now.
GK are pricey. The main troop choice aren't very customizable within reasonable limits. You typically don't buy the special weapons because you lose the strength bonus and true grit w/ storm bolter. They hit hard in melee but lack frags so they can't assault so much as counter-assault. Storm bolters do allow them to kite at 24" as needed without worry of losing shots, so they can be an efficient fire base. Then you aren't utilizing their HtH weapons.
GK Heroes either have a 1 wound or 3 wound Termie, there is no mid-range model like SM can obtain in any of several variants.
GK Special weapons focus around eliminating invulnerable saves, which won't do much against MEQ armies and don't match up well against Assault Cannons.
GK's main Anti-Tank are Dreads that are somewhat fragile, or "elite" guardsmen with melta's.
Lots of Anti-Demon options that goes along with the Demon's Sustained Assault rule.
The real difference between GK and space marines comes down to eliteness versus specialization.
If you compare a GK to 2 normal (bolter) marines they will be able to lay down the same amount of fire power (at range) but the greyknight will be able to move and shoot. In hand to hand if you compare a GK to 2 marines in hand to hand it will come out about even again (if they are hand to hand marines). The difference is that the marines have to specialize to be even with the greyknights which are always that good. The advantage for marines is that anything that kills a marine will kill a GK, and the marines get two wounds for each one the GKs get.
The comparison is more easily seen when looking at terminators. Normal terminators out shoot GKTs like they aren't even there, though GKTs will dominated them in hand to hand. Assault terminators (lightning claws)can't even shoot while GKT can lay out a lot of fire if you have two psycannons in the squad. however once hand to hand comes, the assault terminators are slightly better because they have one more attack. GKT are great, but aren't as good as either of the normal terminators at what they are supposed to be good at.
If you want a varied army get space marines, if you like the cookie cutter army list where every soldier is the same the GKs could be the army for you. Also if you like vehicles GKs struggle to field them, only using dreadnaughts and Land Raiders (both as heavy supports)
Greyknights strength is their versitility--they have storm bolters for shooting so they can move and shoot high volumes at decent range, and in hand to hand get two attacks that normally hit on 3s and wound on 2s. The drawback is that they cost almost as much as two marines, and die just as quickly as one (so that plasma you fear as a marine player is now twice as bad).
What that means is that no one is going to beat you both ways; if someone can beat you in hand to hand, you need to use the mobility of your storm bolters and shoot them until they are dead while falling back so they can't get to you. If someone is going to out shoot you you need to get to them (deepstrike?) and into hand to hand where you will certainly win.
The problem comes to play when you run into an army that is balanced. If they have both shooty units and assaulty units you need to thin out the assaulty units so you can beat them in hand to hand, and hope you are both close enough, and numerous enough to reach the shooty units and cut them down.
Against certain armies the tactics are obvious shoot at Orks, Kroot mercinaries, and tyranids; assault tau, imperial guard, and necrons. When you fight marines, chaos, and eldar figure out their strength and beat their weakness.
Just remember that you need to evalutate things by point cost rather than ability. Against orks in hand to hand you think hitting on threes and wounding on twos with them only getting a 6+ save means you are better, but they will get three orks for every greyknight (12 attacks if they charge you) and will cut you down in hand to hand even though you seem to be better at it.
Space marines are the opposite of this. They need to specialize--bolters or bolt pistols?, heavy weapons or power weapons?. If you want to outshoot someone you have to decide when you make your list; if you want to out assault someone, better add some assaulty units. If you want to play a balanced list, you are going to need to mix and match units, GreyKnights are balanced between shootiness and assaultiness no matter which ones you take (just make sure to get some anti tank in there).
While a GK is good at everything, they are paying for two schools of combat in that regard. Paying for shooting and HtH. Deepstriking isn't always a viable option, as you get your one turn of stormbolters before the return fire follows up. While they are strong once in HtH, you have the disadvantage of not having frags, assuming a shooty army is in cover. You can play the advantages of counter-assault by moving into 24" firing range and then constantly shifting back until you take a charge in cover, since a GK has the same # of attacks whether charging or not.
Mathematically speaking, (I have too much time at work) a Term w/ 2 claws only has a .9% better chance to wound than a GK Term w/ +str NFWeapon. GKT's have 1 higher WS so will be rolling better to hit/wound than a Term would normally. This can be made up slightly by the fact that they can shoot/kite while the Assault Term tries to get into HtH.
Shooty, at least when in 24" range is much more lopsided. While a psycannon can outrange an assault cannon, the PC doesn't rend. Assuming 2 5-man squads with 2 special weapons, the GKT's can wound 8/9 of a term, due to the fact that they will always have a full armor save. The shooty Terms willl wound 1 7/9 GKT's with 2 rend wpns.
As said previously this mainly comes down to versatility and adaptability. Grey Knights are extremely adaptable and can kill almost anything against them, with one on one, or even one on two odds they will probably come out on top but when outnumbered and outgunned they suffer until they get into melee. The opposite is just as true, when outnumbered and outclassed in melee they need to stay far away from their opponents.
You may have noticed I said outnumbered a lot, that's because they will be outnumbered against EVERY other army unless you are fighting a heavily mechanized force. Only problem with that is that Grey Knights can't deal with a heavily mechanized force, they will horribly die especially if those tanks have battle cannons or even just massed guns.
Grey Knights excel against specialized armies, but even against balanced foes their advantages are enough to beat their opponents when needed since almost no unit in the game has as much melee and shooting as the basic Grey Knight, just remember that a balanced army takes a lot of strategy to beat with any other army, more so with the dangerously expensive Grey Knights.
Remember also that the best anti-armour they have comes from storm troopers or allied armies, or maybe they're the allies and the parent list has the anti-tank, either way you have to dish Grey Knights.
Dreadnoughts, their only good anti-armour choice is delicate while the Land Raider is VERY expensive in an army already pricey enough. Usually its best to just ignore enemy vehicles and go with a ton of infantry since it's still hard to kill massed Grey Knights like any other mass of MEQs.
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