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Aight so lately it seems Land Raiders in pure GK lists have become somewhat more popular, and much more debated (especially since Silent Requiem's GK Water Warrior Tacitca on BnC). So I thought I'd find out what everyone's opinion was on this subject.
Now in all my time here, I've noticed the LO DH crowd to tend to be "Pro-Dread" pretty much. However, I for one think that the LR opens up alot of tactical options that the Dread doesn't allow. Not only that but its noticably harder to take down the LR against some armies (need S8 to glance).
Personally I'm trying to incorporate 3 LR's into my 1750 point list for pure GK. Having never used tanks before this I'm pretty aware that I'm likely going to take a beating until i can get used to the change in tactics as well as the even lower model count that I'll be working with. But I think in the end I'll get far more mileage out of a LR list than a Dread list.
There's my $0.02, what does everyone else think?
I know in my own gaming circle whether or not I took dreadnoughts or Landraiders they would be targeted fast and early on in the game, so in my own gaming circle although I do like the armour on the land raiders I'd have to actually go with the dreadnoughts and then max out on grey knights.
ps. I don't play them yet, but I'm looking to start a Pure GK army.
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My gripes with the Land Raider:
1) First and foremost, it is expensive. For half the price, you get a Dread which is just as good (better on the move) at hunting tanks. Soaking up points with a Land Raider, especially when going pure DH or even worse, pure GK, it really limits the amount of wounds on the table, and wounds are what win you games - not vehicles.
2) Second, it struggles both as an anti-tank unit (it can't move and shoot all of its Lascannons) and as a transport (for the same reason - weapons shot are limited).
3) Any Eldar opponent (CW or DE) can take it down as easily as a Tau opponent. Since you will have so few wounds on the table, especially taking more than one, it won't be difficult, especially at higher points levels, for your enemy to take them out with minimal losses. In a 1500+ point force, there is an increasingly higher number of anti-tank weaponry due to the prevalence of Mechanised lists over other types of lists.
I think the Land Raider is cool and all, but I'd only start taking them out at the 2000 point level.
ok, so the land raider question comes up again! lol i saw this a while ago, but never took the time to read it, so now i just did, and i figured i would comment. Unless going with a themed Land Raider list, i see NO REASON to take a land raider instead of a Dreadnought, and i LOVE land raiders. lol so yah, the reasons Lost said were pretty much on the ball in terms of why and whynot. but things i want to add.
land raider with all the fixins: 258
Dreadnought with all the tank huntin fixins: 148
so, you can just about get 2 tank hunting dreadnoughts for 1 land raider. lets compare these....
pros of the land raider
-Highest armour value
-2 twin linked lascannons
-Carries troops to a safe place.
-Can target troops with its twin linked heavy bolters, which is nice sometimes.
-When you move 2 inches, you can only fire one TLLC and the Heavy bolter
-a HUGE fire magnet (although, this can be good sometimes)
-As good as it is, many armies have easy ways of taking this down.
-Has only ONE wound.
-1 avenue of shooting.
-harder to get hull down, and harder to activly place this so that the enemies weapons cannot be in sight of the land raider to take it down (ie. terrain placement and making full use of cover and the like and making sure line of sight cannot be drawn from their lascannon to your land raider in most cases)
now, lets look at the pros and cons of having 2 Dreadnoughts with tank hunting stuff on it instead of a land raider:
-2 twin linked lascannons
-2 missile lanchers.
-can fire all weapons when it movies 6inches.
-each one can target a different tank, instead of the land raider only being able to target one tank.
-has TWO wounds.
-Easier to get hull down and to protect against the enemies weapons that will destroy this thing by skilled maneuvering and placement of the dreadnought (ie. using terrain to your advantage) since they are both smaller then the landraider
-can get two different angles on the enemy, thus giving you two avenues of shooting, rather then 1.
-lower armour value: Strength 6 weapons can now kill these, and the weapons that took a bit of time to kill the land raider will now kill these things with ease. (although, i have had one footslogging dreadnought last against an armoda of tau before, it just all depends on what happens.)
-cannot carry troops
-2 dreadnoughts are 38pts more then 1 land raider.
im sure there are other cons for the dreadnoughts, but when it comes down to it, they are easier to kill yes, but they have a bit of a better chance at killing 1 or 2 tanks in the same turn that a land raider can only kill two. if they both move, they can still fire ALL their weapons, including the TLLC whereas the land raider looses half of its tank hunting worth if you move it. Hence, for the most common Grey Knight army, Dreadnoughts built for tank hunting are far supperiour and much more worth the investment.
however, if your opponent has only str8 weapons as his highest or lower, i would choose the land raider over the two dreadnoughts with no contest, but that is just me. lol
Second, it struggles both as an anti-tank unit (it can't move and shoot all of its Lascannons)The Land Raider can move 6" and fire both its TLLC with Power of the Macine Spirit. FAQ'd if it is the same thing, and is changed in another codex, we still get the changes (Assault Cannon). You can also fire the TLLC's at 2 different targets, and if you're stuned you can still move out of the enemy's firepower, or carry troops closer to the enemy.When you move 2 inches, you can only fire one TLLC and the Heavy bolter
also, i didnt know that with the power of the machine spirit, you could do that. Sweet, i guess that is one more thing to include in the pros of the land raider. good call man!
also, lost, lol remember, ur hitting on a TWIN LINKED 5+, so it is more like you are hitting on a 3+ normally, thus, you got increased chances of hitting succesfully. or does it not count the TLLC as TL when u use machine spirit?
Okay I personally cant fit a LR into anything less that 2k (generally only used in the 2.5k) and this could be because I play a lot of Eldar and Tau.
Also I would only use a LRC, it is more important to me that my unit of GKT and GM get into c/c safely than to shoot with a LR. A LRC can move and shoot all guns, it can also rip apart a unit of infantry before letting my terminators jump out and finish them off.
LR's are personal movers, especially in a GK army where there is no other way to transport them across the board (except the dodgie d/strike), If you are using them as this you should concentrate on that, you dont want to leave your tank in the fire lane of excorsists and falcons just so you can crack off one shot. Its bad enough as it is trying to hide them with the size that they are.
Dreads on the other hand are for killing, three dreads you can almost garantee to take out all enemy tanks, they are easy to deploy away from enemy sight and if you loose one its not a drama as you have two more and it only cost you 140 points.
I normally play with two dreads and a LRC, the two dreads take care of any tanks with my plasma trotting IST's and psycannons and h/bolters taking out any people movers if need be. Sure the LR can have lascannons but then it would sit there shooting from the back loosing half of its function, then if it hit and sinks something with one set of lascannons the others have to shoot at bs2... I dont know if you've played guard before, but its hard enough to hit on bs3. Now if you were wanting this why not two dreads if one sinks one then the other goes for something else at bs4 and you get missiles also...
I know they look cool, but think of what they give you for the points compared with others that do the same for less (unless your using it for transport and then there is no other way)
Nothing better than taking out all there guns that can touch the LRC and then transporting GKT's safely from combat to combat to combat
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For 10pts more than a raider you have 2 Av 12 that can have Extra Armor, hold 2 different objectives and target 2 differnt things with TLLCs. Not to mention that's a total of 4 more strength 10 armor ignoring hits.
for 20pts less than a raider you have all the same except 2 twin linked autocannons.
I never played a DH army, but i used to regularly field 2 dreds. It works wonders at both soaking up fire and dishing it out