Grey Knight Land Raiders vs. Dreadnaughts - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 25
  1. #1
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Maryland, United States
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,931
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    131 (x5)

    Grey Knight Land Raiders vs. Dreadnaughts

    Aight so lately it seems Land Raiders in pure GK lists have become somewhat more popular, and much more debated (especially since Silent Requiem's GK Water Warrior Tacitca on BnC). So I thought I'd find out what everyone's opinion was on this subject.

    Now in all my time here, I've noticed the LO DH crowd to tend to be "Pro-Dread" pretty much. However, I for one think that the LR opens up alot of tactical options that the Dread doesn't allow. Not only that but its noticably harder to take down the LR against some armies (need S8 to glance).

    Personally I'm trying to incorporate 3 LR's into my 1750 point list for pure GK. Having never used tanks before this I'm pretty aware that I'm likely going to take a beating until i can get used to the change in tactics as well as the even lower model count that I'll be working with. But I think in the end I'll get far more mileage out of a LR list than a Dread list.

    There's my $0.02, what does everyone else think?


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    WarmaHorde Pathofskulls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Conneticut, US
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,570
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    91 (x6)

    I know in my own gaming circle whether or not I took dreadnoughts or Landraiders they would be targeted fast and early on in the game, so in my own gaming circle although I do like the armour on the land raiders I'd have to actually go with the dreadnoughts and then max out on grey knights.

    ps. I don't play them yet, but I'm looking to start a Pure GK army.
    Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
    Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss

  4. #3
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Age
    28
    Posts
    12,783
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    830 (x8)

    My gripes with the Land Raider:

    1) First and foremost, it is expensive. For half the price, you get a Dread which is just as good (better on the move) at hunting tanks. Soaking up points with a Land Raider, especially when going pure DH or even worse, pure GK, it really limits the amount of wounds on the table, and wounds are what win you games - not vehicles.

    2) Second, it struggles both as an anti-tank unit (it can't move and shoot all of its Lascannons) and as a transport (for the same reason - weapons shot are limited).

    3) Any Eldar opponent (CW or DE) can take it down as easily as a Tau opponent. Since you will have so few wounds on the table, especially taking more than one, it won't be difficult, especially at higher points levels, for your enemy to take them out with minimal losses. In a 1500+ point force, there is an increasingly higher number of anti-tank weaponry due to the prevalence of Mechanised lists over other types of lists.

    I think the Land Raider is cool and all, but I'd only start taking them out at the 2000 point level.

  5. #4
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    30
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    67 (x2)

    ok, so the land raider question comes up again! lol i saw this a while ago, but never took the time to read it, so now i just did, and i figured i would comment. Unless going with a themed Land Raider list, i see NO REASON to take a land raider instead of a Dreadnought, and i LOVE land raiders. lol so yah, the reasons Lost said were pretty much on the ball in terms of why and whynot. but things i want to add.

    land raider with all the fixins: 258

    Dreadnought with all the tank huntin fixins: 148


    so, you can just about get 2 tank hunting dreadnoughts for 1 land raider. lets compare these....


    pros of the land raider
    -Highest armour value
    -2 twin linked lascannons
    -Carries troops to a safe place.
    -Can target troops with its twin linked heavy bolters, which is nice sometimes.

    cons
    -COSTLY!
    -When you move 2 inches, you can only fire one TLLC and the Heavy bolter
    -a HUGE fire magnet (although, this can be good sometimes)
    -As good as it is, many armies have easy ways of taking this down.
    -Has only ONE wound.
    -1 avenue of shooting.
    -harder to get hull down, and harder to activly place this so that the enemies weapons cannot be in sight of the land raider to take it down (ie. terrain placement and making full use of cover and the like and making sure line of sight cannot be drawn from their lascannon to your land raider in most cases)

    now, lets look at the pros and cons of having 2 Dreadnoughts with tank hunting stuff on it instead of a land raider:

    pros:
    -2 twin linked lascannons
    -2 missile lanchers.
    -can fire all weapons when it movies 6inches.
    -each one can target a different tank, instead of the land raider only being able to target one tank.
    -has TWO wounds.
    -Easier to get hull down and to protect against the enemies weapons that will destroy this thing by skilled maneuvering and placement of the dreadnought (ie. using terrain to your advantage) since they are both smaller then the landraider
    -can get two different angles on the enemy, thus giving you two avenues of shooting, rather then 1.

    cons:
    -lower armour value: Strength 6 weapons can now kill these, and the weapons that took a bit of time to kill the land raider will now kill these things with ease. (although, i have had one footslogging dreadnought last against an armoda of tau before, it just all depends on what happens.)
    -cannot carry troops
    -2 dreadnoughts are 38pts more then 1 land raider.

    im sure there are other cons for the dreadnoughts, but when it comes down to it, they are easier to kill yes, but they have a bit of a better chance at killing 1 or 2 tanks in the same turn that a land raider can only kill two. if they both move, they can still fire ALL their weapons, including the TLLC whereas the land raider looses half of its tank hunting worth if you move it. Hence, for the most common Grey Knight army, Dreadnoughts built for tank hunting are far supperiour and much more worth the investment.


    however, if your opponent has only str8 weapons as his highest or lower, i would choose the land raider over the two dreadnoughts with no contest, but that is just me. lol

  6. #5
    Forward Kommander Blood_Blade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Canada, Eh!
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,005
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    82 (x3)

    Second, it struggles both as an anti-tank unit (it can't move and shoot all of its Lascannons)
    When you move 2 inches, you can only fire one TLLC and the Heavy bolter
    The Land Raider can move 6" and fire both its TLLC with Power of the Macine Spirit. FAQ'd if it is the same thing, and is changed in another codex, we still get the changes (Assault Cannon). You can also fire the TLLC's at 2 different targets, and if you're stuned you can still move out of the enemy's firepower, or carry troops closer to the enemy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MiketehFox View Post
    Ze KHADORANS vill Krush other puny factions into ze Dust! Then vill spread on Sandvich and eat! MMMMMmmmm...

  7. #6
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Age
    28
    Posts
    12,783
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    830 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Blade View Post
    The Land Raider can move 6" and fire both its TLLC with Power of the Macine Spirit. FAQ'd if it is the same thing, and is changed in another codex, we still get the changes (Assault Cannon). You can also fire the TLLC's at 2 different targets, and if you're stuned you can still move out of the enemy's firepower, or carry troops closer to the enemy.
    Well, not firing and hitting on a 5+ may as well be about the same... though thanks for that. Is it in the DH FAQ?

  8. #7
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    30
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    67 (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Blade View Post
    The Land Raider can move 6" and fire both its TLLC with Power of the Macine Spirit. FAQ'd if it is the same thing, and is changed in another codex, we still get the changes (Assault Cannon). You can also fire the TLLC's at 2 different targets, and if you're stuned you can still move out of the enemy's firepower, or carry troops closer to the enemy.
    good calls, the 2inch i just noticed, that was a typo, i meant 6inches lol

    also, i didnt know that with the power of the machine spirit, you could do that. Sweet, i guess that is one more thing to include in the pros of the land raider. good call man!


    also, lost, lol remember, ur hitting on a TWIN LINKED 5+, so it is more like you are hitting on a 3+ normally, thus, you got increased chances of hitting succesfully. or does it not count the TLLC as TL when u use machine spirit?

  9. #8
    Part time Pirate Lord Lucias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    New Zealand
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,148
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    73 (x3)

    Okay I personally cant fit a LR into anything less that 2k (generally only used in the 2.5k) and this could be because I play a lot of Eldar and Tau.
    Also I would only use a LRC, it is more important to me that my unit of GKT and GM get into c/c safely than to shoot with a LR. A LRC can move and shoot all guns, it can also rip apart a unit of infantry before letting my terminators jump out and finish them off.

    LR's are personal movers, especially in a GK army where there is no other way to transport them across the board (except the dodgie d/strike), If you are using them as this you should concentrate on that, you dont want to leave your tank in the fire lane of excorsists and falcons just so you can crack off one shot. Its bad enough as it is trying to hide them with the size that they are.

    Dreads on the other hand are for killing, three dreads you can almost garantee to take out all enemy tanks, they are easy to deploy away from enemy sight and if you loose one its not a drama as you have two more and it only cost you 140 points.

    I normally play with two dreads and a LRC, the two dreads take care of any tanks with my plasma trotting IST's and psycannons and h/bolters taking out any people movers if need be. Sure the LR can have lascannons but then it would sit there shooting from the back loosing half of its function, then if it hit and sinks something with one set of lascannons the others have to shoot at bs2... I dont know if you've played guard before, but its hard enough to hit on bs3. Now if you were wanting this why not two dreads if one sinks one then the other goes for something else at bs4 and you get missiles also...

    I know they look cool, but think of what they give you for the points compared with others that do the same for less (unless your using it for transport and then there is no other way)

    Nothing better than taking out all there guns that can touch the LRC and then transporting GKT's safely from combat to combat to combat

  10. #9
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles (unfortunately)
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,213
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    135 (x4)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blood_Blade View Post
    You can also fire the TLLC's at 2 different targets, and if you're stuned you can still move out of the enemy's firepower, or carry troops closer to the enemy.
    Good point regarding PotMS (which is a cool power). However, I just wanted to jump in here and say that there is no rules substantiation for being able to fire at two different targets. It seems a lot of people on LO play it this way, but I'd never heard of it 'till I joined. While it certainly will let you fire one weapon you normally wouldn't be able to (at a reduced BS, as noted, though with a twin-linked weapon that's still a fair chance to hit), nowhere does it say that normal targeting rules do not apply. Thus the Land Raider must fire this "extra" shot at the same target as the rest of its weapons.

    Cheers,

    -H
    Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
    -George Orwell

    www.drmcninja.com
    If you're intruiged by doctors who are also ninjas, then this is the webcomic for you!

  11. #10
    Senior Member Driftster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Age
    31
    Posts
    281
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    5 (x1)

    Simple..
    Dreadnaught


    For 10pts more than a raider you have 2 Av 12 that can have Extra Armor, hold 2 different objectives and target 2 differnt things with TLLCs. Not to mention that's a total of 4 more strength 10 armor ignoring hits.

    for 20pts less than a raider you have all the same except 2 twin linked autocannons.

    I never played a DH army, but i used to regularly field 2 dreds. It works wonders at both soaking up fire and dishing it out

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

LinkBacks (?)

  1. June 22nd, 2007, 18:31

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts