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I can't decide whether I should have a Spec Weapons squad with two meltas and a demo charge, or a Vet squad with three meltas. Both have pros and cons... the demo charge would give the guys a very good weapon against power armour squads, but after one use it's over, and there's a chance that a bad scatter (which seems to plague me like the plague) will wipe them all out. The three meltas at BS4 would mean rather consistent destruction of armour but wouldn't have that mass slaughterage ability.. sure, they might take down 3 Marines in a turn (and then get raped next turn) but the demo charge + 2 meltas could take out an entire smaller-sized squad... argh, the choices! Help!
Takka n' Wakka's Dakka Attacka! 33W / 6L / 1D
I have seen one demo charge take five decently spaced marines in one throw, they have also taken down a falcon w/ those bs holo fields. Meltas have thier benefits, but like you said, after melting 3 marines at best, they get raped, and are lucky to have made thier points back.
There is another option if you like. I don't know if you are debating these options to fill in a point gap or strategic goal, but you might want to look into Schaeffers last chancers. I took your idea to an extreme and basically took the whole lot of last chancers w/ demo, infiltrated in several sub units, and kept Schaeffer himself back to watch some ratlings along w/ a hellhound. Even when I didn't get first turn the carnage along with the psychological effect was awesome. You could buy say 6 last chancers along w/ Kage and Schaeffer, use Schaeffer for a LD bubble, use kage to bolster the strength of one of the subunits, then take the 6 last chancers into 2 subunits of 3, 2 demo, 1 melta, and infiltrate or deepstrike them. Muahahaha:shifty:
Just an idea for a fellow demo charge enthusiast.
Battlesuits, putting the BS in BullS*%t.
If you do take the veteran squad, it might be better to take 3 plasmaguns instead of 3 meltaguns.or a Vet squad with three meltas
People say "well what if they overheat?"
And I say "who cares? They're really cheap anyway, and this way they have a better chance of killing someting totally, before it gets a chance to kill them back".
Essentially, even veterans are one shot weapons within guardsmen armies, so i'd prefer the higher rate of kills. If you shoot a small marine squad with 3 plasmaguns, there's a chance they will all die. If you replace those with meltaguns, then there's a strong chance the surviving marines will simply kill you back.
As for the demo charge, I wouldn't give them the metaguns, just keep them cheap as chips. Deepstriking, if it works it works, if not, hey, again 'who cares'. The meltaguns almost double the cost of the unit. I mean, why not just run two deepstriking demo charges?
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
I think that in general a vet squad has the capacity to be much more effective than a SWSS, but you have to be using it correctly. If you're taking 3 melta's, then they need to deepstrike, or at least infiltrate to get up close. And then you don't want to be shooting the melta's at Marines, you want to be ambushing a juicy tank. Like Cadaver said, plasma is the weapon of choice for taking down marines. You can also throw in a heavy weapon, and you have a very, very effective HW platform. Maybe a HB and 3 GL's, or a ML and 3 PG's if you're going for marines... Ah the choices! Vets are an excellent unit.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
I love using both Hardened vets and SWS. I play in bigger games though between 1750-2000 points, so I have more flexibility in what I take.
I take the drop troops doctrine of course. I give the SWS a demo charge, and 2 flamers. With the hardened vets, I use their higher BS to deep strike and kill tanks. I'll almost always take 2 squads of each. Each squad rolls with the minimum number of guys though, because they'll die after they drop anyways.
I give the SWS 2 flamers with the demo charge, because it's only 12 points more for those 2 flamers, and you usually can easily kill more than that amount of points with it.
The 2 units are good for different tasks, vets are better for killing tanks, because of their higher BS, but the 2 flamers with demo charge that SWS brings is better for killing infantry and even marines, because of the more wounds being inflicted.
I say there's room for both. As said earlier by others, vets are also excellent for infiltrating with multiple plasmas and a heavy weapon for MEQ killing.
MacGyver = Crushing Victory
Well special weapon squads can only have one demo.
Also it is worth noting that special weapons in a special weapons squad cost half again as much as in a regular platoon.
Personally I'd go for a demo + 2 flamers.
It costs only 5 more points to replace a 3 melta SWS with a minimum hardened vet squad, and you get the vetern in the latter choice.
agreed, i use one sws with the demo and two flamers and they've most always paid off for effectg, psychological if not pointwise, but contrary to earlier mentioned of only being 12 points for two, as noted in the entry, flamers are more expensive in special weapon squads and will cost 18 points extra for the two of them, and although more expensive, that is still cheaper than the 30 points you'd otherwise be dishing out for the two meltaguns in the sws.
all in all sometimes in hind sight, each of those flamers is almost worth as much as a plasma gun in any other squad, and their effectiveness is based almost solely on how close you're able to land to the enemy unit, pending your scatter, plus incorporating what your enemy unit comprises of (either closely bunched weak mob units or widely spaced meq units). so maybe it's best to take a bare boned sws squad with just a demo charge if looking for point return on all comers but it'd still be hit or miss as with any other deep strike squad. i take them with flamers because it rounds the all comers opposed to my plas/melt vet squads ds'ing with them. so0 personnal pref once more.
argh, i know this could probably all be edited to a sentence or two, but really... just stop reading past that point yourselves... knowing in my mind i'll regret this all once i wake up in the morning sober.
edit: well for thanatos, keep in mind, that sws can't even take plasma guns. but in relation to a 3 meltagun vet squads to a sws with 3 meltaguns, the sws would cost more by 5 points and without the bs4 or better ld by 1 so really it's all personal conjecture on that.