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  1. #1
    Senior Member Templarius's Avatar
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    For all BLACK TEMPLAR players -a must read-

    Well this has been a hotly debated topic on the B&C, so I thought I would get some more feedback.

    This opens a whole new degree of Tactical Capabilities for Black Templars everywhere!

    Righteus Zeal: RAW

    original post, Baron Truman B&C link to original thread:[Sorry champ, external links to other forums aren't allowed ~ Karmoon]the "recent" raw ruling of RZ - The Bolter and Chainsword[/url]
    According to the studio;
    1) I asked Phil Kelly, a game designer, (who wrote the Eldar Codex, and is writing both the Chaos and Orks codeci) how they at the studio play a Massacre result. Did they always move the full roll of a D6, or if it was 'up to D6" '. He said that the studio guys all played 'up to D6'.

    2) Then I quoted him the Righteous Zeal ruling, and asked him if you must move the full roll or only 'up to D6"'. His response was "exactly means exactly, (in regards to 'exactly' like the Massacre rule) so you must move up to the amount rolled toward the enemy, it's right there in Black and White" (with a grin)". One of his most frequent opponents is a Black Templar player, so he's already given it some thought and know's what he's talking about. As a games designer it reasonable to assume that he's got a pretty decent knowledge of the rules in general. Certainly better than the order-monkeys when you call mail-order.

    According to fluff;
    Consider that Blood Rage is no longer going to affect Khorne Berserkers. Does it make sense that Berserkers can casually stroll around the battlefield in full control while loyalist Space Marines can't be trusted to hold their position when they are told to?

    According to RAW;
    This has been hammered out over and over again, and it's quite clear that RAW dictates that both the Massacre rule and the Righteous Zeal move are UP TO the amount rolled.

    Finally, According to Game Balance;
    Black Templars cost more than a standard codex marine. What are they getting for this?

    1) No possibility to purchase Veteran Sergeant this means;
    a) Leadership 8 instead of 9 (negative)
    b) No wargear (say teleport homers)
    c) No extra attacks for the single powerfist in the squad this is HUGE, and with Termi-Honors you you can get 4 instead of 2!

    2) -1 Leadership for targeting priorities
    a) This means even with a Marshal on the field we can only possibly ever get a 9.
    b) Without a Marshal it means you're only targeting on a 7, which is 50%!

    3) Fearless in close combat
    a) Having a higher leadership is better. You at least get a chance to back up and charge/shoot again, and even if you're caught it ends up 'counting as' fearless.

    4) Taking a single casualty causes a moral check.
    a) Imagine without Righteous Zeal how this would be accepted for other chapters! They would be screaming and crying their eyes out!
    b) It can get us into combat a bit sooner, but it doesn't count as charging, so if it's mis-interpreted this could be a huge negative!

    5) The opportunity to pay 50 points to get preferred enemy.
    a) Of course this is 50 points onto an already expensive foot slogging character that's hard to get into combat with many scenarios.
    b) It's another 50 points onto a non-scoring unit, which in some scenarios can equate to 100 points down in VP's.

    6) If we make it, we *can* choose to move forward.
    a) Of course it has to be toward the nearest visible enemy, and if played incorrectly can get us charged.

    So, here we've got 5 pretty strong negatives, and a 6th where inconsiderate people want to mis-interpret our rules (and the main rulebook rules) and turn into a negative too, when we already pay extra points on EVERY marine and character! Top that off with the fact that we don't get Traits, Librarians, Whirlwinds, or Devestators, and ask yourself "is this really a balanced army?".

    So, beside Zeal, what DO we get? Land Raider Crusaders as Troops choices! Yippee, just what every Meltagun, Railgun, and Lascannon heavy commander hopes to see! So, if you insist on mis-interpreting the Zeal rules, you're pushing BT players toward playing as many LRC's and vindicators that they can fit into their army. Do you really want to see BT players all fielding a pair of Vindicators and 3 Crusaders with 5 man squads inside??? This is what people are doing by misinterpreting the Zeal rule.

    I've traveled a LOT and seen how BT armies do in tournaments, and let me tell you, the are NOT the power army of choice. Far from it. They got nerfed hard and are way down on the power scale.

    Last edited by Karmoon; July 2nd, 2007 at 22:02.
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  3. #2
    LO Zealot Spector's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
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    Thats how I've always understood them to be played. Your opponents cannot force you to move, nor is there any reason for Templar to be chasing after empty rhinos. We aren't Khorne...

    I disagree with the part with Black Templar being way down on the power scale. While I've only played a few games as Templar, I'm running a Troop heavy list and its able to go up against pretty much any list you can throw at it.

    There are no weak/bad armies. There are bad players, and army comp falls under bad players, not bad armies.

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