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I was wondering if anyone had crunched the numbers or had feelings on using Hardened Vets as the "sit-and-shoot" squads in your IG Armies instead of the normal platoons?
I was thinking about using the Veterans Doctrine to get a couple of BS 4 Lascannons on the field - but I'm concerned that the returns may not be as good as just having "more".
Troop slots could be filled with armoured fist squads or Stormtroopers ( I was leaning toward Stormtroopers - again BS4).
Anyone tried it?
Thanks in advance!
i think the massed bs4 3 lascannon/9 plasma gun, plus however many lasguns should be able to put out at least as much sticking damage as maybe 4-6 line squads (pending luck with overheats as always).
although they'll have about as much lastibility as 3 regular infantry squads. i'd say for best results give them cameoline (maybe just jungle fighters if keeping them in the woods and can be chosen to only applied to them instead of all of army) and just stick them with the hq command w/ hso/honorifica, standard bearer, and iron discipline and they'll survive longer as well as almost never run before melee.
never tried it myself, but it does seem like a workable idea and would be interesting to see how it fares
edit: would ha ve to go with the grenadiers since you need an infantry platoon per armored fist, but you'd better better off with their statline and 2 special weapons if you're mounting them up and using them as a counter-assault/assault force.
Yup, I was totally going with the Grenadiers doctrine - I was planning on mounting them in Chimeras one with Meltas and one with Plas, they burn up the field and target priorities.
Chameoline is not a bad idea for the Vets at all- since I'll be probably dropping them in cover any way, and they infitrate so I'll be dropping them last...
Thanks! I'll get that down on paper.
The rest of the list would follow conventional guard lists - command squad with the Ld bubble. 2 Russes, Hellhound, 2-3 sentinels
The +1BS is debatably worth it, as 3 squads would just mean 10 more guardsmen, but the infiltration is an ability that can really change a battle, letting you set up firelanes and deploy to counter your opponent.
It would depend on what is in the rest of your list as I find guard with too many tanks and elite troops, and not enough numbers flounder to just put out volume of fire and to survive incoming fire. However seeing how regular guardsmen are so cheap, it shouldn't be that hard to get the hardened vets, tanks and some fodder all in the same list.
The list will still have lots of warm bodies to shoot (or be shot at), and the majority of the models would have BS 4 (except for the vehicles)
3 x 10 man Vet Squads
2x 7 Man Stormtrooper (Grenadiers)
1x 5 man command squad
49 Infantry models
Total 55 models
It is still Imperial Guard so getting a decent model count isn't hard, I just would like to move away from the IG Paradigm that numbers equals accuracy...
seems like it should do the trick, but you're going to have to be a little more specific with what you're taking though so i can give it a better go-ahead than that.
also, how many points are you looking at, the only broad concern i'd have over it would be the sentinels, that although are fast-moving gun platforms, i think the chimeras provide that plenty enough, so maybe change them out for a hellhound or a support squad, shrug who knows.
Points for the army will probably be either 1500 or 1750, so I could get a hellhound and/or maybe a demolisher in there.
I do like the sentinels though - I normally run them with Lascannons so I can go tank hunting - I also use them so screen my tanks/tie up hordes.
A hellhound would add alot of damage output though, good idea!
IF you are going to be fighting in the jungle or woods than jungle fighters is perfect for a veteran firebase. You sit between 6 and 12" into junge because jungle fighters can see 12" through jungle, however other people can only see up to 6" in. Therefore if you are 8" in you can shoot out, but nobody can shoot back.
Another way that some people like for the veteran/grenadier combo is to take carapace armour and basically have an army of storm troopers, only with elites that get 2 more weapon upgrades, and unfortunatley lasguns instead of hellguns, but that doesn't make too much of a difference most of the time. This is one army style where commissars could be handy. The +1 ld does apply to an hq command squad's ld bubble, so a HSO with a commissar has a ld 10 bubble, and since you only have 1 command squad you could then start putting commissars on the storm troopers to help maintain moral when they are a distance away. Plus you now can really add some punch that cannot be singled out when assaluting with the storm troopers. It is strange that veterans aren't allowed to have advisors.
Rabid, you read my mind.
Xrix1 and I play together so I was holding out on mentioning this idea - I was totally going to include commissars in the army, partly for the leaderhip bonus but also the hidden Powerfist!
I use my command squads to stop or slow incoming enemy CC groups, so giving the Commander a powerweapon and having a Commissar with PF would work great. My only concern is the command squad would be pretty pricy with all those upgrades - HSO w/PW, Iron Discipline, Commissar w/PF. and Regimental Banner
The jungle fighter would be a good upgrade if it was not terrain specific - but half the terrain that I play is ruined city - I think I'll stick with the chameleon cloak for the vets and then stash them in cover.
Light infantry and chameleoline together act like jungle fighters, but everywhere. Infiltrate and get a better cover save. If you use Cities of Death rules and fortify a building with chameleoline troops in it you get a 2+ cover save. Pounding away at a 2+ until it fails is a viable strategy against things like terminators because every 1 on their part scores you 40 points. When you finally roll a 1 to lose a model, you look at your opponent, smile and say"congratulations, you killed a guardsman".
btw I LOVE DISTURBED! great logo man.