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I posted this as a reply to a thread on warseer Click
but I thought I would start an oppinion thread on my idea. Im shure it has been though of before, but I just want to get other ppls oppinion, because it is something I might be able to try out in my gaming groups.
Ideas are welcome.
well after alot of reading I have come with my point of view.
I like the LR... I also love the effectiveness of the LRC. I must agree with some of the above posts that what kills the LR's capabilities are a few things.
- Expensive points wise (compared to other MC's or other tanks, namely falcon and Monolith)
- Can die, with one lucky placed shot.
- Not a defined role in the army... big guns, and transport capacity, if you shoot, you dont move, and if you move you negate your big guns dilema.
I feel that the LR, and any other vehicle out there would benefit from a re working of the damage tables. The most important thing I would like to see go is the lucky glancing hit 6 - Vehicle destroyed.
My solution? make this a second immobilized result. Or the only immobilized result, but add a second weapon destroyed & crew stunned for #5. This would make the LR and any other vehicle harder to stop without the right equipment. Of course it will make skimmers alot more survivable, but there is till the immobilized result that can down them. And alot of stunned results that can rend them useless & vulnerable.
This would also add to the benefit of a rule like Venerable, making glancing hits less of a threat to vehicles, but still able to disable them in some way.
So with a krak ML shot you could only acheive a glancing hit, that inevitably could not destroy the LR, but could incapacitate it by immobilizing it, or destroying its weapons.
I think this, together with maby an aditional rule, would make the LR and all vehicles a more integral part of the game, and a viable option to MC's.
The damage tables should look something like this:
Glancing Hit (str+D6=AV)
5-Weapon Destroyed & Stunned (or 2 weapons destroyed)
6-Immobilized & Stunned (crew must disembark & take pinning test)
This I think would be a start. Secondly I beleive that there should be a reworking to the penetrating hits table... this will make vehicles more of a threat, but also make taking weapons in an infantry squad a difficult more though out choice.
2-Weapon Destroyed & Stunned
3-Immobilized & Stunned
4-Immobilized & Stunned
This I feel would make alot more sense. And could work. I feel that this is a great option. Now as for ordinance hits, I beleive that an ordinance penetrating hit (or equivalent) should be the only thing that can destroy a vehicle on a 4+ so somthing like this:
Ordinance Penetrating Hit (Ord str+D6>AV)
1- Weapon Destroyed & Stunned
2- Immobilized & Stunned
3- Immobilized & Stunned
4- Vehicle Destroyed
5- Vehicle Explodes
6- Vehicle Anihilated!
well I think this would rock. Any C&C on this idea are also welcome. I think that this would improve the workings of the game, and the Land Raider, as an ultimate fighting vehicle.
(as well as giving it a small point decrease)
yeah you make a good point. If they could find a way to reduce the unluckiness of vehicle's that would be good. I hate it when your game is ruined by a shot that destroys a vehicle when it really shouldn't. I like vehicles, but i wish they weren't so easily screwed over by a lucky shot.
I'd be interested to know if these changes are an improvement. Have you played with them yet?
Up Side, it'd help Armored Company, I guard, Loota's ETC ETC...
Down side, Anyone with an Armored force would have a ridiculous advantage against everyone else.
let's not mention it'd be almost impossible to kill any skimmer, especially a fast one..
That was bad juju man
Lucky shots are the most important thing in the game. You want to know that until your last model dies or the last turn you still have a chance.
In the case of the Land Raider I have no idea why GW doesn't lower the point cost. When the tank could split fire or move and shoot one LC it was much better. Less effective = less points.
If you build a man a fire he will be warm for a night. If you set a man on fire he will be warm the rest of his life.
I have not played them yet. It was just a thought, as fro skimmers I did think about that.. so I would consider switching the glancing table to:
so that it can crash and burn... but for example the LR or any other traked vehicle would only be incapaciotated... and a transport could be rendered useless.
Anyhow these are my thoughts.
I know it would make vehicles alot more powerfull, but I beleive that they should play a greatel role in the game. And we shal see the resurgence of some of the ones that never mae and apperance, like LR's.. etc
Instead of messing with the tables I think revamping the skimmers' rules would make the game more fair. Let's face it, the fast skimmers of tau and eldar (especially when that is most of the army) all need lucky shots to take them out. Your LRC would stay on the board longer if their str 10 vehicles were able to be destroyed.
They are the pimple of the game - too cheap and too overpowered imo.
Skimmers still have a 1 in 3 chance of being taken out of the sky by a glancing hit. Stunned results are equally disastrous.
Of course, you can invoke vectored engines, holo-fields, spirit stones and decoy launchers to counter all of the above. But particularly in the case of the Eldar, that adds 50% to the cost of the vehicle for the survivability imperial players so despise.
Lucky? No. They're survivable because nearly all players fork out for the upgrades. And it's those upgrades, upgrades that only work when the vehicles takes a glancing hit, that mean when it takes damage you're taking out a bigger proportion of the Eldar army than you would if the same vehicle had fewer upgrades.
Imperial players have too much faith in their lascannons and plasma guns. They need to realise that it is volume of firepower, not high strength, that beats skimmers.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
Indeed, as a mech Tau commander the weapon I fear more than others are autocannons and their equivalents.
Interesting ideas suggested for the damage table, but I think the current one works a little better.
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
Kind of silly to change the damage tables just for one vehicle.
There's also no reason why a glancing shouldn't be allowed to take down a vehicle. Missile hits vehicle -> chunk of the armor get sent flying into the engine -> inferno of death
Thread on Eternity Gate (here) suggests giving the Land Raider an option (like the whirlwind chooses one of two missile types) of taking the lowest of two rolls on the damage chart or having lascannons more powerful than normal, or something else along that line of thinking.
Also there's a Land Raider Terminus being released for Apocalypse, so maybe that'll have something fancy.
Last edited by chinnfrequent; July 24th, 2007 at 00:53.
Black Templar (3000)
Imperial Guard (1500 and growing)