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I was playing a game of Fantasy earlier today with my lizardmen against my opponents Khorne @2000pts. After everything was setup and deployed (which took quite sometime) we rolled to see who goes first and the game was underway. Now my opponent had a demon prince with mark of khorne so I baited him with some skinks and he charged at me his following turn. I of course fled with the skinks and then wiped out his demon prince with magic, and a unit of flesh hounds with salamanders which in turn made his beast herd take a panic check which they failed. The beast herd was way too far inland to run off of the table but I didn't even get to see how far they would have gone because at that point my opponent conceded.
This infuriated me..he still had a chosen unit of Khorn Knights, chosen khorne warriors, non chosen khorne warriors, marauders, a mortal chariot, and his beast herd who may or may not have rallied. This was on the top of turn 2.
Now the reason it bothered me is because my opponent said "I have no chance of winning" and though that was likely he could have went after my slann or just fought it out and maybe..just maybe gotten a draw.
Am I being irrational though? Is it bad sportsman like for me to get angry when an opponent concedes or bad sportsman like for my opponent to concede on turn 2?
hmm, i can see your point there
i personnaly think that if you have enouigh models to carry on playing adn perhaps scrape a draw, then i would keep going. i have to get used to my brother who has just got into the hobby and he doesnt concede defeat at all, not until i have taken all his models out (40k tho)
this doesnt bother me, its just when i finally do, he gets all aiffy about it. lol
but yea, i think your friend should have carried on until it was defo more clear that he couldnt win
In the name of the Emperor and for the Glory of the Imperium... Gimme Back My Girlfriend! :(
You have every reason to be infuriated. It is an insult to you that he just stops the game becuase things aren't going 'his way'. The game is about both of you having fun, not just him!
The only time where its apropraite to conscede is when you have like 5% of your army left or it is like turn 5 or 6 and the enemy has devestated your army to a point where playing further would just be pointless.
(the only time i ever conceded was this time in a 4000pt game where my offensive was a complete flop and all i had left was a 20 man strong CSM unit that was out of range of the enemy and vice versa)
That is not dead which may eternal lie,
for in strange aeons even death may die.
Having said that, conceding 2nd turn is pretty extreme, unless most of your army has bolted.
I've conceded games before, and had games conceded to me, but it's generally been 4th or 5th turn, when one player really obviously just didn't stand a chance, and both players knew it, and were happy to start a new game. If you make it to 6th turn, then you might as well finish it off, and if you're not up to 4th turn, then it's worth at least reconsidering whether the game is effectively "over" for one player.
The problem with conceding early on is that the game is based on rolling dice. Dice always give you a chance. That being said, I come from a chess and go background which is all about reading people moves. You look ahead, and if you look far enough ahead you can figure an outcome. Sometimes by turn 2 I know how a battle is going to go, and its does. It seems, however, more often than not I end up predicting how it should have gone. The same person will probably win, but it might not be as decisive as you thought. Sometimes the dice surprise you, and you come out on top. Turn 3 is usually the turning point in both 40k and Fantasy, by that time most people are able to determine who the winner is going to be. The best games that you talk about for a few days afterward are determined in the last round.
Koss, very true, and its all about having fun. Being on the giving and receiving end of that beat stick. I have given and received the option of "just starting over". Its no fun when your "cool omg beatstickzor" unit gets mauled turn 1 by an equally beatstick omg BS unit and you didn't even get to do comperable damage.
I do think that conceding when on the losing end of things borders on rather unsportsmanlike, consider that if iti IS for fun, and your oponent isn't having any.. is it really worth playing?
In this scenario, there was VERY little chance of even getting even a tie, even with a well played game. That's no fun, really. Now someone could say" well it was his own fault for putting too many eggs into one basket"
Ask yourself this question, if the role was reversed, if his BT had gotten the charge on your slaan(by some fluke) turn 1, killed him outright, continued onto your alamanders and wiped them out, would you REALLY say "aaah, now all I've got to do is play flawless, have the dice gods on my side, and maybe, just MAYBE I can draw him"
I doubt it.
Because if you're infuriated about him insta-conceding(on a really bad start to a game, and I mean REALLY bad start), I highly doubt you'd be quite as optamistic either.
See it this way. you won. you STOMPED his force, forces of KHORNE ran away turn 2 period. squash kaput.
There's no taking that away, it just saved both of you some time and some humiliation for your oponent.
W/D/L Eleventy trillion billion/NONE/ NONE - I am STILL rulezor!
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!
My automatic first reaction was to think “You don’t get to conceded in a real life battle, why should you get to do so on the tabletop…”
But I read through the rest of the posts, and the point was made about it being a game, and being a game you’re meant to enjoy.
Of course, it’s difficult. You don’t always enjoy losing (which was perhaps why your opponent conceded) but then again, you don’t enjoy having to just stop half-way through a battle because your opponent doesn’t want to play any more.
I suppose there’s not much you can do. As was said earlier, it sounded like your opponent could have made a comeback, so to quit just sounds silly. On the other hand, if their plan hinged entirely around the unit that just got wiped out, then maybe their cause was sunk and they knew it.
I guess there’s not much you can do. You could try chaining them to the table, but if they’re that adamant that they can’t get a win and want to concede, I suppose you just have to let them. Not fun for you, but it’s probably worse for both of you if you try and push the issue.
Whenever I lose (and I invariably do) I enjoy seeing how many others I can take with me.
I also play khone, and get hounded by skinks and salamanders. But if I still had my knights, they would fight to the death.
It's very unsportsmanlike to quit in the second turn, and worse, it's un-Khorne-like. Sure, he may lose, but he may not, and you'd get to see by how much if you continued. For Khorne, the funs in the killing and not the winning. He'd squash you the moment he gets into CC. He should have tried and gloried in it.
He ought to not play if he's going to be all sissy about it.
(And why did his deamon prince get caught out? It can fly and is really manoeuverable. Plus Khorne?!!? Should be almost magic proof.)
You was robbed, I tell yah.
If you play him again, set down some ground rules first.
Cervantes: In order to attain the impossible, one must attempt the absurd.
I never concede unless for some reason I have to urgently leave. My reasons for this are:
- As already pointed out, it's a game where chance is an integral factor, an army can almost always make a come back.
- Every game is a learning experience. By quitting early I am harming my 'education' in the game. Following this on I would also be harming my opponents 'education'.
- I agreed to play a game with my opponent, not half a game.
- If it does indeed get to the point where it's an almost certainty that I'll lose then I'll start playing less seriously. I'll start doing wacky stuff and try to have some fun while losing. In the thread about lucky shots I mentioned Rambo Kroot, who single handedly took down a dreadnaught (before his venerable re-roll *grumble*). In that game I'd pretty much already lost, so I took a wild gamble and got some amusement when it payed off. Even if it hadn't have payed off I still had fun declaring that the shaper would not stop until he had vengeance against the machine that killed most of his kindred.
If you can still win, you'll hold back from doing stuff 'just for fun'. When you've already lost it gives you total freedom. Some of the most enjoyable games I've had have been when I was massacred.
- IMO it's better to be a loser than a quitter.
- In a tournament situation conceding gives your opponent a 'massacre' when the end result might only have been a 'major victory' or even a 'minor victory'. That small difference in points may be enough to change someones placement. I'd want a high placing becuase I earned it, not because someone chickened out and gave me extra points for nothing.
2000AD's answer to all "How do VC deal with ..." questions: Forbidden Lore + 2 Power Stones.
Further answers will require more vodka.
I think it's very unsporting to concede early. I always play to turn 6. I think it's only fair to my opponent who has taken the time to write a list and come and play me, the very least I can do is stick around and play to the end, even if I have had some rotten luck in the opening turns.
Often it's not as bad as you might think, and it's more than possible to pull it back. I've had that happen to me. Do some damage in the first few turns, might even kill the general or BSB, and then I get slack and my opponent has surprised me and made it a much closer game than I thought it was going to be.