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I love how learning to paint faces is no longer nesiscary!
They are exactly the same as always.
I love these characterful, less cartooney new figures. What these are the old ones?
Hurray for plastic, instead of quality I get bitz!
What is GW's official line on this sort of thing?
I perfer the old ones.
This may upset people but I feel I have to say it, Citiadel has not made any good miniatures in well over a year. What upsets me however is that they insist to tell us, on every opertunity that they are better than ever and that they should be revered as gods.
Has no one else noticed that they charge top dollar for toy soldiers, wargames miniatures prices even? I'm happy to pay for quality and even convienience, that said I buy: paints at GW, I wish the list were longer.
As I see it
The old miniatures; cartooney, characterful and detailed.
The new miniatures; far more cartooney, characterless and simple.
Why do GW have to say that the older miniatures were worse than the new ones? Simple; the old ones were the best in the world, better is always good. Also however the new models do not speak for themselves; they are not endearing, as much fun to paint or characterful.
People refuse to realise that there are competitors that can match the older miniatures for quality, they are better than the present citiadel miniatures. GW have realised this and as such are mounting a two pronged assult to counter it; they speak ill of characterful miniatures, saying that the present [explitive] is superior to the style that made them big and that has been adopted by the competition. Also they are hiding away in the realm of plastic, being as plastic moulding is too expensive for most of the competition, a drop in quality is worth it after all if you can get the punters in.
If anyone can convince me of my folly, that I am myself wrong then please do so before it is too late but do not simply parrot GW's PR for the reasons detailed.
Up, up and away!
I do agree that there are other companies out there that make some excellent models.
I disagree with your general statement.
Everyone has the right to there opinion but you are tarring all G.W models with one brush.
I for one love citadel mini’s. I think the current ranges of Tyranids are by and far much better than the old models from the 90’s.
If you like character models then using plastics are great way to convert your own.
In general these kinds of topics are unhelpful at best. You have not even suggested how or what can be done to improve the current range, and you seem to have forgotten that many of the old mini made by G.W are still available online from their mail order.
I AM BOOMER!
Personally, I am a big GW fan. I disagree with some of thier practices, some of thier policies and some of thier tactics. It's true that (some) of the minis have been turning over to more mass produced, slightly less detailed, and a bit simpler. I am ok with that. They are fairly expensive. That is fine with me. I am not one of these complainers that is going to talk smack about a large company with a large following because I feel betrayed. If I really felt that way, I could stop playing 40k and sell my minis on ebay and be done with it. But I don't. Because I like to play, I like to paint and most of all, I like the history. I like the fluff. I like all the back story that comes with the game, the world and the universe. That's what I am buying.
edit: I didn't vote in the poll, and I think the answers are misleading.
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams
The votes are not serious at all. The change is in the fact that GW is trying to be cost effective to them by providing playable miniatures, and not sacraficing enough quality to make you stop buying them. Enough said...
Have you ever seen the first edition chaos space marines? or the previous edition empire statetroopers?
Look at these and then tell me the current line is worse, i'll give you an example, here, older marines:
and these old orks:
Now you're honestly telling me these are better than these?
Every so often i see someone who thinks older models are better, try looking up older obliterators
and now tell me the older models are better.
I might not like a lot of stuff citadel does finance wise or how they treat us, but the models now are the best ever.
Got a "good" rumour from a GW staffer? Forget about it, LO'ers know more than any random GW shop staffer.
Voor alle nederlanders:
The Dutch Legion
What do you mean when you say that the new models are not 'characterful'? You seem to be having ago at the plastics, but how can an arm be 'characterful'? A helmet? Isn't the whole point of multi part plastics to give you the opportunity to make your army unique and 'characterful'?
Anyway, I think the quality has VASTLY improved over time. Although I wasn't around when the old models were big, I have seen alot of them online and a majority of them, to me, look kind of awkward and seem to be scaled a bit off. At least the more recent metals are in more natural poses, compared to the earlier marines and such who all seem to be holding their weapons as close to their chest as they possibly can. Also the new(ish) nids, as Boomer said, are the first that actually look intimidating.
My 2 cents:/
Also im not voting as your poll is a bit insulting to anyone who disagrees with you.
Kabal of the Twilight Blade - Host of Tecpatl - Salamanders 3rd
Please take a look at the mentioned Tyranids, Chaos Marines (possessed perhaps?!?), new Vampires or Orks and tell me here again that they are less detailed than before...
I look at the Ork Trukk and I know I would not collect Orks due to... the number of crazy details that I do not wish to paint after working on WH army for over two years now...
Probably everyone here was calling for GW to move to plastic due to the ease of conversion, so that everyone can create characterfull models on their own. Not like they are not by default - Shok Gun Ork perhaps?
Cartooney - yes, THE OLD ONES were - dare to rememer the old Tyranid Warriors perhaps?
What is the real cause for your post?
I'm not going to flame you, as your opinion is your own... but I think the comments here speak for themselves. If you're talking about back in rogue trader days... then i'm not sure what you mean? The models were pretty awful looking... i know i played back then. You'd have an army of 60 orks all in the exact same pose... And lest we forget the old dev squads???? lol with the stupid guns up on their shoulders.. hahaha
Those models will always hold a special place in my heart... but at the end of the day i have to say that I really really enjoy the new ranges that have been released in the last couple of years.
Well then, I feel that the inclusion of more and more plastic sprues is a very good thing for the hobby. While it is true that the metal figs can hold a bit more detail, they can be very unwieldy for mods, plastic is very easy to change add/subtract/bond. Also, I feel the overall quality of the modelling has come a very long way.
*side note, painting faces... I dont see how the plastic models make it hard to paint? the smoother surface encourages you to blend and highlight where you feel the need. In the past with deeply grooved texture, I saw people painting faces that would shame a blushing clown-hooker.
Armies thus far....
I'm going to join this debate myself, for two reasons. Firstly, I deplore the misspelling of Citadel, and indeed the other careless misspellings in the original posters initial post. Please be aware that this standard of carelessness really grates on the nerves of educated people. However, it IS an interesting and provocative topic, and for that I commend you.
My opinion, with over twenty years personal experience of collecting and modelling Games Workshops miniatures is that the current ranges are generally better than ever - with a few unfortunate exceptions. The move to plastic means that far more flexibility and imagination can be deployed by the modeller than the old metal minis. The plastic figures are also lighter and more tolerant of damage - so can are less likely to be a burden, either physically or emotionally (if they are accidentally dropped, for example) for younger hobbyists.
However, there are some classic miniatures that it would be impossible to better in plastic, metal having the advantage of allowing finer detail and mould undercutting. For example, Juan Diaz's sultry metal Daemonettes - currently there is a new plastic range of Daemonettes being brought out that are stocky and clunky by comparison (and not to mention far less nubile and sensual). And also Jes Goodwin's Sisters of Battle - apparently Jes was asked if he could design the moulds for plastic versions of these, and he wisely said that they would not be able to retain the subtlety of the 15 year old originals using current plastic moulding technology (I dare say there were other cost implications for a relatively slow selling army though, developing moulds to cast plastic is a costly process).
Although I often admire the new releases (will probably get a few of the new plastic Orks and Skeleton warriors when they are released - just out of curiosity or for old times sake maybe) it is to be hoped that the quality of these new ranges is maintained, and that they help to pull Games Workshop out of the very real financial problems that the company is suffering from.
Ryan Dancey, Vice President of Wizards of the Coast, believed that TSR failed because of "...a near total inability to listen to its customers, hear what they were saying, and make changes to make those customers happy." Are you listening, Games Workshop ?