Welcome to Librarium Online!
Recently, I've had the opportunity to watch a person playing 40k, and doing surprisingly well. Not just in a single game, but several games against a variety of opponent. Their victorys are not simple wins, but land-slide wins (Victorious Slaughter! according to WH40k Margin of Victory).
After looking a little more closely, I saw that it wasn't because they were an exceptional player. Their army is unbalanced to a point so as to be ridiculous. They have the bare minimum number of troops (with the maximum number of heavy weapon upgrades I might add). Meanwhile, they have the maximum number of Headquarter, Elites, & Heavy Support choices possible. It was rather reminiscent of the imfamous '3 Wraithlords in a 500 point army'.
More so than this, the player seems to set up the terrain to favor their army; making sure there is plenty of terrain to block line of sight around the edges, while leaving a large 'killing field' of open table in the middle with plenty of lanes of fire. In fact, they insist of this type of table.
Even more telling of the player's character is their 'convenient memory' or 'favorable interpretation' of rules that might penalize their army, such as conveniently forgetting to roll difficult terrain tests when needed.
Moreso, the player seems to love to gloat over their 'mastery of the game' to the point of making sure people see the results of the battle long after it is over.
An example is a battle recently fought by the player in question. It was Dark Eldar (this particular player's only army) vs. a tyranid army. The DE army had 87% of its points in specialist units (Headquarters 20%, Elites 43%, Heavy Support 24%), with the 13% in Troops being the bare minimum possible for the 2 Troop minimum in the 1500-point game. The Tyranid player had a much more reasonable 37% of their points in Troops (Headquarter 15%, Elites 13%, Fast Attack 3%, Heavy Support 32%). I later saw that the Tyranid players army list was wrong, being a total of 1698 points in a supposedly 1500-point game (13% more than it should have had).
By the end of the game, the entire Tyranid army was destroyed (100%), while the DE suffered minor casualties (12%). The game didn't even make it to the end of turn 6. Worse yet, the tyranids were beat in melee. With the tyranids being favorites in a melee battle, and them having a bigger army, and first turn advantage, you'd think the tyranids would win. You certainly wouldn't expect a land-slide loss for them unless it was a phemenal DE player. But the win wasn't due to any mastery of the game, just to an extremely unbalanced army list.
What would you think if faced with this army and this player yourself? I hear the term 'competitive army' used to describe these armies by the people who play them, but what is your opinion? Am I wrong to think the game is supposed to be fun (and fair - i.e. balanced) for *both* players? Should there be some kind of rules to keep armies a little more balanced (such as the Army list rules for Fantasy Warhammer)? Are we playing WarHammer or CommandoHammer?
The good thing about people like this is that they will soon alienate all the other players because he is no fun to game with, and will probably not be able to find anybody to play against.
Oh, these are the worst types of players.
Terrain setup can be handled, just get in a 3rd party to do it.
His army list, have look at it, and bring the perfect counter.
Become a Rules Laywer, by the book, total rules lockdown. Get some sideliners to help.
All ''non-friendly'' tactics, but against such players you need to employ them just for a bit of revenge.
The worst part is the gloating. I had a common opponant in the past who pretty much matched this description, and he was no fun at all to play against. They think they are superb gamers, but infact they're some of the worst; bad winners, bad losers, cheats.
So, going with the above, wipe the floor with him. Any money he will roll off a list of endless excuses about how he had awful luck, and your luck was awesome. Its what they do, if they win, theyre amazing, if they lose its down to bad luck.
So yea, kick his *** For LO! and for good gamers everywhere...
PS, as a final note, there is a difference between this type of player and a Tourney player. Tourney players play strictly by the rules and play to win honestly. This player plays however they like, play to win and play for the ego trip.
I played vs a guy over easter, big tourney player. The game the most stressful i've ever had, no fun at all, but still more fun that playing against an ego lol.
Last edited by Phoenix; May 24th, 2008 at 16:15.
As has already been mentioned, army lists can always be dealt with. But cheaters and sleazeballs can be hard to deal with, depending on your environment. I imagine if you're in a GW place, you could complain to a redshirt. If you're in a gaming club, you could take it up with a more senior member. Sometimes though, there are those of us who have small groups in more remote areas, and nobody wants to be the one to stir up the awkward situation. One thing that you can always do, is refuse to play them, and ensure that others know they have the right to refuse games with him as well.
We had a guy at our local hobby shop who would literally cheat on his dice rolls. It was either "oops i rolled for the wrong guy" or horrible attempts at sleight of hand. I took the guy to the side, and informed him that I knew what he was about, and if I saw him do it again he would called out in front of everyone. Needless to say, he hasn't been back since.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
Now I'm not trying to defend the guy, hes obviously a tool, but I don't think his list (from my interpretation of what it probably contains) is actually not that far from what most of us use. Curious that he doesn't use many troop choices though, DE warriors are one of the best troop choice in the game bang for buck.
Play tri-falcons and THEN say its unbalanced:p
Anyway, being a jerk isn't gonna get the guy many games. There are always people who take advantage of rules and exploit codecies, these people are best ignored. Maybe when they realise they're not getting games anymore, they might change their ways.
P.s. Welcome to LO!!
Kabal of the Twilight Blade - Host of Tecpatl - Salamanders 3rd
I appreciate the replies. It helps assure me that I'm not seeing this in the wrong context.
Reading your replies, I see that you guys are making a few assumptions. Assumptions that I (kind of) intentionally allowed you to make.
First, this didn't happen at a 'brick&mortar' store. If it had, I would have had a lot more chance to handle the situation personally. I have a large army of 'powder-blue tux marines' that I would have challenged said player to a game of iron-man 40k with, and put them in their place, or at least taken them aside and tried to talk to them (or threatened them). It happened online with Warhammer 40k Vassal. This insures that their rolls are legit, but the rest is still subject to 'creative interpretation'. Also, the online aspect give them the comfort of being 'faceless'. Because it was online, I could see their army lists and actions and check things, but I don't have the force of a player standing at a table watching over their shoulder.
Second, the player was a girl. Actually, being online, I have no way to assuring that it was a girl, but the name suggests.
Third, it was a member of this community. I hope they see the post and realize that this is about them without me having to embarass them by name. I think they are probably so often online because they have already run out of players wiling to have a game with them in their area. Online, the faceless aspect of the situation assures they can usally find someone to play. If people start catching on, there will always be new players, and they can always change their name. If you are reading this, you know who you are. The game I mentioned happened just last night.
meh, sounds like bad eggs to me. Your username doesn't exactly do much to convince me otherwise either.
I do not really see the importance of the player being a woman, a jerk is a jerk no matter who they are. Someone like this will soon find themselves out of gamers to play with.
One piece of advice to participants in this conversation: Tread cautiously.
If this discussion is about cheaters/power gamers and how to deal with them, fine. We all encounter this kind of player from time to time and there's no harm in a thread to vent about them or discuss how to handle them.
If this thread is designed to call out this one opponent and defame said opponent because you feel you were wronged in one game, I think you will find this thread locked pretty rapidly. This is not the place for you to air your personal grievances or to pick a fight with one specific member.
Well, I have to at least give the player in question credit for making a really lethal Dark Eldar army. Most (not all) rumors I've heard desribes them as being really fragile.
Other than the gloating and the bending the rules, I really see no issue with it. I would reccomend playing against this player just to learn about your own army. After all, we learn the most when we face the tougest opponents. Of course, the player's attitude will have to be taken in with a grain of salt.
Best advice I can give is don't dwell on it too much. Whether we face braggers, rule benders, or cheaters, the only person who can make the game less fun is ourselves.
I am heading off to the Peace Corps. It is bery likely I will not be back. Good luck to all of you endeavors.