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I want to say that I mean no disrespect with this thread. Just seems to me that lately the whiners have become louder.
More and more i've noticed that people I talk to and read about are doing less tactial thinking and more complaning seems the best way to put it. Time was when you were having trouble with a unit or army you could come to places like this and there would be plenty of people able to give you advice on how to counter the problem. But with the comming of the new books people seem to be having more trouble with GW's growing pains. I'm going to focus on fantisy mostly because thats what i know best but this can also go along with 40K. This all seems to have started at the begining of the power creep with the HE book. It did what at that time bothered most people for 2 reasons i think. 1. It gave an entire army ASF. Something that I think most people would agree did nothing to help make a ballanced list. 2. It took the the standard army set up and gave them more rare and specal slots while letting them take less core. Given what we can see today with the VC, DoC, and to a lesser degree the DE the HE chages arn't that bad.
Now im not saying that some of the complaints are not valid. When you look at the Grand Tournaments and you see the 6 to 8 of the top armies are VC or DoC then clearly there's a ballance issue. But there have also been some complaints that as far as I can see don't come even close to being a problem. This hole though came into my head when i checked out the Warseer forums and what do I find, but a long descusion about how the WoC spell Infernel Gateway(spelling is porbably wrong, but im at work) is a crutch and by casting it you break the game. Now is it a good spell, yes. Dose it have the chance to wipe out a unit, yes. Is it game breaking, i would say no. Its a good spell, packs one hell of a puntch when it hits, but to get it to wipe out a unit you have to jump through a crazy number of hoops. First you have to roll and get the spell. Getting it on your lvl 2 is good but because of its high casting cost even with the +1 you get from tzeentch its still going to take a 14+. Taking at least 3 dice if you roll good and usualy 4 to feel confident that it will go off. Then you have to cast it wich can be dispelled, scrolled, you could miscast(even with the infernal pupet item most the miscast table is not good. even if you can get a 12 you better hope the spell wipes out a unit because your not going to get to use it the rest of the game.) Even after that you still have to roll an 11/12 to wipe a unit.
So that brings me to my conclusion. At what point are we no longer looking at a game thats broken. I think we can all agree that there are some aspects of this game that should be looked at and should have been play tested better but for the most part this is an enjoyable game. I hope that when people respond to this that it dosn't become just another place for us to complaine but something that we can actually use constructivly.
Welcome to the human race, where have you been? J/K
People are whiney when they don't have everything just right, I say the hell with that. When life gives you lemons.... as the saying goes, best to play down your faults (or in this case your armies') and play to your strengths. Even the best can be beaten as there is no "stronger army", just look for achillies' heel.:cheers:
Just my two cents!
GW's QC process is terribad. They don't test their games or rules effectively anymore, and when things come out broken or overpowered, they go "OH WELL WE DIDN'T THINK PEOPLE WOULD CHEESE SUCH THINGS OUT THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN NOT COMPETITIVE." They're the Kings of Copout, which is really just a cover-up of a terrible cost-saving procedure (pay our people terribly, so we can't keep enough on staff for proper playtesting).
GW puts out a decreasingly quality product (although model quality goes up admittedly), at a higher than appropriate price. It's still a good, fun game, and it's got decades of background, which is why we still all play it, but don't hate on the masses b/c they've figured out something smells like pewp. When it does, don't be surprised that people pinch their noses and ask whose pewp it is.
Either way, yeah, you can figure out tactics and approaches that will counter all the new "stuff" out there, but it's also not wrong to criticize bad QC.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
A fair amount of the armies out there are fairly balanced. However I refuse to believe that the VC list is broken. Not sure on the Daemons list because I haven't seen it in action, but I can think of plenty of armies out there much harder to beat than the VC. And I also play VC so I know the many weaknesses of that army compared to say.......Dark Elves?
Side note - the measure of balance is not whether the army can be beaten, but whether it requires a commensurate amount of effort and thought TO beat in comparison to other armies in the game.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
Well that just makes the easier to beat armies more fun to roll than the tougher ones because it takes more strategy to win.
This reminds me of back when I played WoW, people used to complain about shaman being overpowered and people who played them complained they were underpowered. Now I rolled one and he was infamous for being tough to bring down.
What's my point you ask, it was usually the people that knew nothing about shaman or other classes that complained.
It really is simple know thyself, know thy enemy!
Moaning is what all internet forums are for!
You may think everthing G.W does is all peachs and cream and that's great.
But i can see why people lose their rag over changes made to rules and such.
Anyone who made a Lost & the Damned army has had their army made invaild
since the nex chaos codex came out.
It would be nice if G.W had a some kind of suggestion box for ideas and feedback.
I AM BOOMER!
They do, it's called Jervis's ear.
The problem is, the other ear is open too ... and so you know, goes in ... goes out.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
I'm going to say: No.Originally Posted by Topic
On the basis that you can't become what you already are.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric