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*not so much of a rant...more of a...minor moan*
I had my very first game with my new Skaven army today- I'd settled on taking a couple of new toys just to test out how effective they are but mainly because I really loved the plague furnace model.
I arranged a game with a good friend of mine "To have some fun", he doesn't consider himself a competitive player and this is what we both fielded;
1000pts Skaven (me)
Plague Priest, Plague Censor, Furnace
Warlock Engineer, Doom Rocket
30 Clanrats, Shields, Full Command, Warpfire thrower
25 Slaves, Musician
25 Plague Monks, Full command
5 or 6 Poisoned Wind Globadiers
6 or 7 Plague Censor Bearers
I made this list up with no real aim in mind, just wanted to test out some of the units and have a laugh.
1000pts Dark Elves
sorceress, level 2, 2 powerstones
sorceress, level 2, 2 powerstones
2 units of corsairs (one was 19, one was smaller but more than 15)
Now, my "cheesy unit" he was complaining about- the plague monks+furnace hit his hydra after he managed to get a breath weapon attack off killing about 9 of them, in combat they proceeded to kill his war hydra but in the process lost everything but the furnace... the rest of my army he massacred with Magic.
When I openly asked him did he feel it was a good idea taking that much magic when he knew I'd at best have a couple of level 1s- he told me that was the list he always ran at 1000pts and he was surprised how effective the magic was as usually most people run at least 2+ dispel scrolls.
The thing is, magic has become such a game winner that there are 2 builds out there- magic heavy lists and anti-magic heavy lists. There's nothing more depressing than seeing an opponent put out a special character backed up with 3 level 2s, or 4 vampires and knowing you've got absolutely nothing in the army that can shut them down.
I'm not talking about tournament play, I'm not even talking about competitive play- but do people feel that the average pick up game of Fantasy they play these days they find themselves facing cheesy lists or lists that exploit the rules? In short.. have the one or two tournament players you get in each gaming club and shop around the world forced everyone to start having to match their level of play rather than we just band together and play friendly?
Dont get me wrong, I like tournament play and I like competing at that level- but when you use a brand new army and a good friend sticks something like that across the table from you, I cant help but feel this hobby in general has taken an unpleasent turn the past few years.
My local club ran a campaign. Mainly to promote new players to learn how to play and give them a good taste for it. It was a map type campaign, points agreed between opponents.
I'm a fairly experienced Lizards player. I do normally magic heavy lists (hard to not be magic heavy with a slann) But I do like the Carny old blood. In which case I take 2 priest caddies and that's it.
More to the point.
In 1000 points I had
Hide of the cold one
Lvl 1 Priest
2 x scrolls
2 x 15 saurus blocks with spears and full command
2 x 10 skink skirmishers
5 x Cold one Cavalry
His list was;
2 x lvl 2 Sorceress with a power stone each. one with a dagger.
20 warriors block with command
5 x Cold one knights
Playing against that much magic + a hydra in 1000 points was ridiculous. Luckily I'm a better player than he was. Hydra charged my cold ones, kept fleeing.
Eventually my cold ones managed to get his hydra useless in a corner of the table and his executioners stuck in a forest.
A destroyed everything else and won, taking a lot of casualties myself.
In my playing group in general no one does the cheesy thing. We don't play much fantasy anymore but we don't do it in 40k.
There was recently some issues in a 2v2 but it was really due to match up. Me and another player both have themed mech armies. His is eldar, mine is dark eldar. Throw as together on a team against Guardsmen and foot slogging CSM and watch as the CSM get killed midfield while the guard vehicles are constantly shaken/stunned/destroyed.
It really comes down to the type of person you're playing against I think. You could always try teaching him a lesson by doing it to him, but you'll be stooping to his level.
That's my 2 cents,
I'm having a rematch with him soon... I'm going to take a nice friendly list again. I've decided that I'd prefer to win the odd game and know its down to me being a better player than spamming a particular combination and knowing I win because I play Daemons...lol
I don't think it is killing the hobby. A lot of it has to do with the group you play with. Down at the local GW I was surprised by how many people play uncompetitive list, or they try and be cheesy and take overpriced over powered units that are nearly as effective as core choices. Having not played in awhile but reading quite a bit on the forum I found it odd to go in the store and watch two footslogging space marine armies fighting each other, I was saying in my mind "don't you go on the Librarium? everyone knows the new edition is all about Mech"
So I would say that in these parts around the local store people are not playing ultra competitive armies.
Definition of Cheese: A list that when usedm beats yours, no matter how bad you are at the game
My Arena Champions: Kharn'eth The Bloodcleaver and Gorzag Iron Jaw
I hope you're not implying that either of us are bad.
You think a hydra at 1000 points is fine? How would you play your game against it?
WITHOUT knowing the hydra would be there?
I like the fact that with your opp's army you can tell that when they made their list they sat it all up and then took what was remaining of their points in order to get there core units lol.
And honestly, the store that I have always played in has always had people bringing tournament style armies to the table for either game, and in most situations they would make sure to try to use their rules to the best of their ability, however I would assume this is because the ones of us who have played there for a long time were used to having tournaments every other week. However when some one new came to the store most people people would normally change their lists in order to me more friendly, I think it really just (as said before) boils down to your gaming club.
Now I would cut your friend some slack since I know that when me and my best friend take FRIENDLY armies, it generally ends in a board wipe on either side by about turn 3-4. So perhaps you have simply shown to your friend that you are simply competitive as well and he brought an army to combat that.
Last edited by Thyhadras; November 28th, 2009 at 23:44.
Slaanesh, god of the beer goggles
tourneys let the real players shine. the ones who want to fight against players who they feel can provide a challenge. it helps to seperate the good from the average. tournaments propvide more goods than negatives. just ahve a look in any other hobby/sport.
IF a game is developed to be used for ballanced competative play, tournaments and narrative driven play ALL enhance the gameing experiance.
Unfortunatly GW PLC uses the games simply as a marketing aid.
WH and 40k are not balanced enough to allow all playstyles to be used in conjunction.
So it fall on the players to play with like minded individuals.
And as most tournament player are of a similar mind set ..I can not see a real problem.
(Other than lackluster game support from GW PLC.)