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I've been playing Warhammer 40k since 1st edition and I'm currently trying to get to grips with 5th Edition. I'm rather dismayed as to what they've done with Missile Launchers. As I understand it, you no longer roll to see if you hit on your BS, instead you roll the artillery scatter dice and a D6, which means you only really hit accurately 1/3 times. This being the equivalent chance of hitting with BS 2, I'm wondering if there's any point to having missile launchers in my armies unless I'm up against opponents with large squads.
Does anyone else out there think that Blast Weapons have been nerfed by the new edition?
Blast weapons have actually improved. Any model touched is hit, there's no more partials. Also, when scattering you roll 2D6 and subtract your BS so with Space Marines anything 6 or less isn't going to be a huge scatter. Best part, you'll never "miss" since shooting into a crowd will net you hits even with scatter.
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Indeed. For a Space Marine, the average scatter distance is 3", which isn't terrible when shooting at large units. Especially now that partials counts as hits. It even makes grenade launchers useful!
Some have suffered from it though. The Fire Prism isn't a very good tank hunter these days, because scattering the focused shot will usually result in the strength being halved. Oh well.
This particular change has been very well received, even if just for the simple fact that it finally puts an end to missiles flying off target and disappearing into the void when they really should have blown up SOMEWHERE.
As the others have said, it's really not that bad - your average marine still hits on either of the direct hit faces on the scatter die, and your average Marine has any roll of 4 or less turn into a direct hit regardless of scatter. For armies like Orks it's not that great for accuracy, but come on... Orks? Accurate?!?
To top it all off, the end of 4+ partials has easily doubled the number of hits from blast weapons while reducing time spent fiddling with the template trying to decide how many partials there are. Now, it hits, they're touched, they're hit - end of story.
An improvement of the "where'd my Miss-ile go?" of 4th Edition perhaps but I'm seeing a lot of Astartes-centric arguments here, I think it's safe to say that they are the least affected by this rules change. Space Marines are pretty much the cream of any troop in the universe, so considering the average roll on 2d6 is actually 7, that means you should expect at least an average 3" deviation minimum for marines and a maximum of 8"! That's a sophisticated laser guided missile system they're supposed to be using, not a bazooka!
Orks are going to have a problem but then it's a given that orks can't shoot straight, you account for this in your army choice. This rule screws your average BS3 unit, in particular Eldar.
I like Missile Launchers because of their tactical diversity but if it wasn't for the twin-linked re-roll, I'd be tempted to cut them off my wave serpents and replace them with something more reliable like starcannons, not something I like doing either as I find them somewhat excessive.
Back in 2nd/3rd Edition, if you hit you hit. If you missed, the shot would deviate according to the scatter/artillery dice or misfire if you were really unlucky. Aside from the Armour Penetration rules, I think that was a better system.
In fact, the handy instinct to spread out that most players faithfully follow to avoid giving Ordnance shots a disgusting amount of free hits works in your favour here - while it does reduce your maximum potential hits, it spreads the squad out so that any half decent scatter roll will still find targets among the spread out troops.
I don't know what else to say... I'm quite a fan of the new rules, but I guess that's me and this is you. Hopefully your luck will turn around.
In this case, it was a squad of 10 Sisters Of Battle clustered round an objective. Missile banana'd 6" inches off target and hit nothing but air from a distance of about 18". That's the equivalent of shooting and missing from 36 yards away!
Admittedly, I didn't use my twin link re-roll (didn't know about it, like I said I'm only just getting into 5th) but it just doesn't make sense to me that one of the most advanced race in the universe can't come up with an accurate blast weapon. Eldar don't even get Crystal Targeting Matrices anymore 8(
Compare if you will the Exorcist, a Heavy D6 S8 AP 1 Missile Launcher where the lack of blast effect is irrelevant thanks to a good probability of high rate of fire and anything getting hit falling over in short order.
Seems to me that 5th Ed. is all about the direct fire, weight of dice and re-rolls.
You do know that the Eldar codex was written for 4th edition, right? The edition where blasts dissipated into thin air if you missed?
And the CTR was never close to being very good. It was... weird. Very weird. Now if you would complain about Starcannons not having 3 shots any more then I could at least understand that.
Last edited by Da Mighty Camel; March 24th, 2010 at 14:32.
I am aware, yes. However in 4th Edition, I had a 50% chance of being bang on target, now it's only 33% with a significant margin for error on the miss. As I mentioned before, I've always considered Starcannons excessive. I actually welcomed the reduction since they ranked among the distinctly twinky elements of the Eldar army lists over the years (remember Craftworld Iyanden having Wraithguard and Wraithlords as Troops?).
CTR was great if you knew how to use it ie pop up attacks. It meant your entire force if mobilised could hunker down behind terrain and make it particularly difficult to get hit by anything except guess weaponry. Perfect for a Wild Rider Host.
I'll play a few more games with Missile Launchers to see how I feel about them on balance, though it's something that's likely to be addressed as a house rule with the group I play with.