Other Games Workshop, Privateer Press and Geopgraphy - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  • UK gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    19 38.78%
  • UK gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    3 6.12%
  • US gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    10 20.41%
  • US gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    2 4.08%
  • European gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    1 2.04%
  • European gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    2 4.08%
  • Australian gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    3 6.12%
  • Australian gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    0 0%
  • Rest of the world gamer who DOES NOT play Warmachine/hoards

    5 10.20%
  • Rest of the world gamer who DOES play Warmachine/hoards

    4 8.16%
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  1. #1
    Senior Member matus's Avatar
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    Games Workshop, Privateer Press and Geopgraphy

    I was just reading an article on BOLS and someone said something that made me think. They were talking about the impending 8th edition of WFB and someone talked about the rising popularity of the PP games like warmachine and hoards, and how this edition change could be their chance to steal a big chunk of the market at a time when numbers playing WFB are quite low. At first I nodded to myself, I'm always hearing on these forums and blogs about this warmchine game, models appear from time to time on CMON, theres even a forum on LO for them, they must be a major threat to GW. Then I stopped and thought.

    How come I've only ever heard of them on these forums? I'm from the UK, and along with Europe we form the largest userbase of GW players. The US is unfortunately quiet a small part of GW's business, and one they have always struggled to exploit. Are there actually warmachine players of any number here in GW's heartland? None of my friends have heard of them, but lots of people, even non gamers have some idea of 'that warhammer game from the shop with the loud people in on the highstreet'. When I go into WH Smiths to buy a magazine I can have White Dwarf, a mag on toy soldiers and a couple of publications that concentrate on historical gaming. Apart form the small 'dark futures' section of one wargaming mag there is nothing that even mentions other scifi gaming and other fantasy games are ignored totally. If I want to go into a shop that sells wargaming miniatures I have a few options. GW stores are by far the most common, there are 17 within 25 miles of my house. After that come Hobbycraft, there are 2 I go to regularly and the odd toyshop.

    The toyshops don't stock much, mainly 40k. I once managed to find an independent gaming store while on holiday in Devon. The only options apart from the internet are GW, and the small amount of Flames of War and traditional historical gaming at hobby craft. If I was not already a gamer and thus browsing these sites I would never have heard of warmachine, lets face it you don't just stumble onto Wayland Games.

    Am I missing loads of PP stockists in the UK, or are they not really a threat in the Heartlands of GW support that make up about 70% of their market?

    I thought I'd try a little pseudo scientific experiment, please vote above

    Last edited by matus; June 2nd, 2010 at 13:35.

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  3. #2
    Professional Lurker sithjack's Avatar
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    I think it's a shame that no one else is posting in this thread, because it seems like one of the more interesting threads to come along. In the spirit of things I'll throw out my experiences. Every Privateer Press player I know, I know through LO. Of the two hobby shops I'm ever in one stocks a small amount of PP stuff and the other might. Maybe, it's been like two years.

    I personally don't play PP games, I've never been such a huge fan of the models or background and so never looked into the rules.
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  4. #3
    LO Zealot Triorchin's Avatar
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    I am in the UK, the only time I've seen warmachine/PP/flames of war/secrets of the third Reich, was when I went to a huge hobbies expo to help my dad drive trains(g scale, not real ones)

    The models seen nice, but they are pricing themselves out of the market. I would expect them to be quite cheap, but they are almost on par(if not more than) with GW.

    I bought a few heads for the secretes of the third Reich range, the guy asked me if I played and I told him I was using them for GW.
    He then looks at me stangely as if to say, your one of them, he then just finished serving me as quickly as he could and went back to playing his confusing looking games.

  5. #4
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Privateer Press is a US based company; GW is a UK based company, and is much larger (or at least seems to be!). Several shops I know of in my area alone carry PP models, books and have at least a few players, none of which I've known to be on LO. It makes sense; I'm a big fan of PP for several reasons, a big one including the fact that I like to support companies from my own country, just as I would enjoy supporting GW more if I were living in the UK.

    @sonoftheemperor - PP models aren't much cheaper, individually, than GW models, but you can play the game with significantly fewer of them, given the differences in the structure of the games and the list designs.

  6. #5
    Senior Member matus's Avatar
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    So are there lots of independent traders in the US? In the UK you are never far from a shop that sells toy soldiers, but they are almost always citadel miniatures or 1:72 historical models. There used to be a model shop in my own town when I was a child, but that has long since shut down, and Virgin Megastores used to sell models, but they were dropped in favour of more computer games long before they shut down. To me there are two holy grails of modelling when I go on holiday around England. The first is a shop that sells high density polystyrene and the other is a shop where I can find other models I can convert into my GW ones, two things which I get the impression are abundant in the US. Ironically they are both things I think were available in the eighties and early nineties in the UK. If I remember correctly GAME stores even used to have a gaming table in, although I'll need a UK venerable longbeard to tell me if my memory is playing tricks on me.

    I wonder if that has an effect on the strong 'competitive' element the stateside hobby (supposedly) has, and the more casual flavour it (supposedly) has in Europe, with the US having more approachable, open gaming shops were you can go and play, that will host small tourneys. Either way forums like this, where a broad range of people meet seem to have the effect of blurring the lines. My friend Rafici reads LO a lot now and you couldn't find anyone more committed to finding the perfect competitive list than him.

  7. #6
    LO Zealot Rafici's Avatar
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    That is true - Its why i started using the forum.

    I have to say in south london there is not much but GW. There used to be a big hobbie craft but that closed sometime whilst i was at uni. There is a small one near me which is great for stuff for scenery, very good but the rest of the store is mostly remote control cars etc or train stuff. The scenery stuff i talk about is mostly for trains but its good and cheaper.

    I've just been looking at Privateer Press website - not the first time as i have stumbled on it from peoples links but never really looked into it. I agree with Mat on the parts - some i like but i like what i could do with them in my SM army. Nothing seemed to work with my tau army. I do love the 30mm bases, the sides are very nice. They do have some nice models but they need to improve that website to make it more simple to see their products.
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  8. #7
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    The other half and I tend to go to Reading to get ours, there's a shop literally opposite the train station that satisfies his PP fondness and my own Dice enthusiasm.

    The kurb up to the door is a bit steep but the shop is deceptively large.
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  9. #8
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    There are quite a few independent retailers here in the U.S. There are two of them within an hour's drive of where I live, with one of them being about 20 minutes away.

    As to the scarcity of PP in the UK, I think LN hit it on the head. PP is a U.S.-based company (Washington state, I think). I personally have yet to play a single Warmachine game, though I finally have some models painted up and am raring to go.

    It's true that you don't need a lot of models to play Warmachine/Hordes... for now. What's ironic is that PP, when they came out about 5-10 years ago, touted itself as "not being GW." They proudly pointed out how there were NO codices/army books, that the rules and ALL faction (their word for individual armies and races) updates came in a single volume, with updates for every faction all in one place. They also took pride in the fact that ALL the models in their range are metal, not like the sissy GW plastics, and crowed about how they were a skirmish-based game that was supposed to be easy on the wallet.

    Then came the MKII revamp of the rules. In what PP says is an attempt to simplify the re-introduction for all factions, they've decided to release faction-specific books (known to the rest of us as... codices/army books), which means those of us looking to read up on the other factions in know-your-enemy fashion are now forced to do what we do in 40k... buy copies of all the books, whether you own the army or not.

    Also, while it IS possible to play small skirmishes, it does appear that the trend of late has been to make armies bigger and bigger and bigger, especially if you want more than one warcaster (which some argue is where the REAL fun can begin in this game). PP has also announced a new box set, one for each of the factions, featuring a new warjack with interchangeable parts, allowing you to build multiple variants. The new kits are all made entirely out of... plastic.

    Way to stick it to 'em, PP! I'll still play it because I like the fluff, the models are fun, and the rule system is easier to understand than all but the most recent GW offerings, but the "play with us because we're not GW" argument has all but evaporated.
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  10. #9
    LO's Shadow Captain Lost Nemesis's Avatar
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    Canew - as of now (who knows what could change in the future, but I've learned to take PP at what they say), the Mk. II faction books are a one-time deal intended to do exactly what they've said - update each faction in its entirety for Mk. II. They have stated that they fully intend on returning to the expansion-book-updates in the future, which is something that I like about their system.

  11. #10
    LO's Resident Time Lord Canew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Nemesis View Post
    Canew - as of now (who knows what could change in the future, but I've learned to take PP at what they say), the Mk. II faction books are a one-time deal intended to do exactly what they've said - update each faction in its entirety for Mk. II. They have stated that they fully intend on returning to the expansion-book-updates in the future, which is something that I like about their system.
    I certainly hope so, too, but again, with the ever-expanding standard of army size, and now PLASTIC models, I'm not sure anymore. Oh, well. We'll see.
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